Elac Adante AS-61 Speaker Review

[goldark]

Looking at the scores, they're almost exactly 1.6 apart(which I think is 2 standard deviations?). I think these two speakers are far enough apart to say that most people (say 80%+) would probably prefer the Pioneers over the Adantes in a double blind scenario crossed to subs. It's illogical due to the same designer and the huge difference in price points, but it's what the data says. To say that the Adantes would win, you'd almost have to believe that measurements don't matter at all. I'm sure it's a hard pill to swallow for Adante owners, and that's why we see so much pushback, but it really is what the data says. How much faith do we put in the data? That is the question.

An easy way to verify this would be a level-matched blind test between the Pioneers and the Adante in the SPL range that the Pioneer could play comfortably. That would go a long way in addressing the controversy that is the preference score.

 

[Pepperjack]

yikes I keep toying with the idea to by the adante blindly but then keep coming back to these measurements which I mostly don’t understand. It’s so sad it almost seems like Elac gave AJ free run to do what he wanted but then Decided it wasn’t profitable or good enough so axed it and brought in their old models with a few tweaks? Man, so many more speakers need to get audioscienced.

 

[Jakerton]

I got them - the floor standers along with the matched subwoofer - for a song and it's a very impressive sounding system. Certainly a step-up from my previous PSB Imagine Ts. The build quality is impressive and they look good too. I liked them so much I not only replaced my 2.1 bedroom system but also my 5.1 home theater.

I didn't purchase the subwoofer right away. I listened to them for about a month before deciding that the low end really did need help. I have to admit that that was a tad disappointing but, on the other hand, the musicality of the mids and pinpoint precision of the highs more than made up for it. I think my tube PL is a good match for this very resolving system.

Do I think that this is the best sounding system ever? No. Of course not. Does it sound really good? Yes. Was it a great value. Certainly. Think of it as a value-oriented real upgrade to your system. An upgrade that leaves money in your pocket to spend on other stuff - like room treatment for two rooms.

(Primaluna dialogue premium HP integrated, heavily modified Rega RP6, Jolida JD9 II phono stage, Brooklyn Bridge, Oppo 105D, D.BOB, Blue Jeans cables & interconnects, room treatment)

 

[Haint]

I got them - the floor standers along with the matched subwoofer - for a song and it's a very impressive sounding system. Certainly a step-up from my previous PSB Imagine Ts. The build quality is impressive and they look good too. I liked them so much I not only replaced my 2.1 bedroom system but also my 5.1 home theater.

I didn't purchase the subwoofer right away. I listened to them for about a month before deciding that the low end really did need help. I have to admit that that was a tad disappointing but, on the other hand, the musicality of the mids and pinpoint precision of the highs more than made up for it. I think my tube PL is a good match for this very resolving system.

Do I think that this is the best sounding system ever? No. Of course not. Does it sound really good? Yes. Was it a great value. Certainly. Think of it as a value-oriented real upgrade to your system. An upgrade that leaves money in your pocket to spend on other stuff - like room treatment for two rooms.

(Primaluna dialogue premium HP integrated, heavily modified Rega RP6, Jolida JD9 II phono stage, Brooklyn Bridge, Oppo 105D, D.BOB, Blue Jeans cables & interconnects, room treatment)

The Imagine's seem to be reference class speakers, particularly their listening window plots.

 

[Abe_W]

yikes I keep toying with the idea to by the adante blindly but then keep coming back to these measurements which I mostly don’t understand. It’s so sad it almost seems like Elac gave AJ free run to do what he wanted but then Decided it wasn’t profitable or good enough so axed it and brought in their old models with a few tweaks? Man, so many more speakers need to get audioscienced.

It comes down to if you think Andrew Jones is competent or not (Maybe, the guy who did this review is a couple of notches more genius than Andrew Jones even! In that case, you wouldn't take a chance with these speakers, obviously)
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-uj1c3V6Ta0s/learn/the-story-behind-elac-adante-speakers.html

The reason i believe the Adantes didn't sell too much was because they entered the US at a entry level price bracket and folks got accustomed to it. Fat chance they were gonna pay 5k for a pair of ELACs! that cheap entry level speaker.
The same thing happened when he released the Pioneer S-1EX ( which i owned). Folks who were buying the entry level pioneers didn't even know of its existence.
Yamaha has speakers at 5k to 15k. But, what ??? Who's gonna pay that much because Yamaha is supposed to be entry level trash?!?!
If Revel had speakers for 100 to 300 bucks, do you think these dudes will dish out 20k for a pair of their speakers?

Eitherway, I suspect a speaker such as this with the coupled cavity will come out in the future. It will probably be priced at 20k or more. Audiophools will bow down in respect when they see that price tag and buy it then (whoop di doo).

 

[q3cpma]

Yamaha has speakers at 5k to 15k. But, what ??? Who's gonna pay that much because Yamaha is supposed to be entry level trash?!?!

Really? I thought everyone knew about the NS-1000 and children.

 

[amirm]

(Primaluna dialogue premium HP integrated, heavily modified Rega RP6, Jolida JD9 II phono stage, Brooklyn Bridge, Oppo 105D, D.BOB, Blue Jeans cables & interconnects, room treatment)

Let me know if you want your Primaluna amp tested.

 

[Pepperjack]

I have to say, I really don’t think it “comes down to whether you think Andrew Jones is competent or not.”

of course I don’t know left from right, but he did say he had set out to try something new for Elac.

(Edit: I deleted some passages above since it was repetitive) according to the article you linked he:

1: created a new bass drove enclosure and crossover essentially by himself based on designs he had not worked with for 25 years. Both of which he described as extremely difficult to do.

2: created a new tweeter based on designs he was unfamiliar with as a result of his inability to use metal tweeters

3: created a brand new midrange design and voice coil that would work with this tweeter.

All of this was also largely based on trial and error apparently, and after designing it he specifically said he went to build it “and start listening to it to see how I could get the bestperformance from it.”

it’s not like this is his 12th iteration with decades of research poured into it.

So, saying that it is a good speaker but has some flaws is certainly not the same thing as saying Andrew Jones is incompetent. He apparently took on an enormous task and it would be surprising if everything went perfectly. My hunch is he will lap back around with the metal tweeter and improved bass and higher cost...and that one will be a home run

and maybe this one already is, I have no idea, the combination of test results, user feedback, discontinuing it vs the incredible response it got upfront as well as being listed as an “a class” speaker by stereophile makes it SOO confusing. heck for all I know the testing is failing to address some sublime element of the speakers, they are spectacular but Elac has decided they can make way more more by modifying, rebranding and selling g it for 20k. Who knows?

however, I think it’s probably a little too big for my space anyway though I keep looking at it. I would be fine, but it might just cross the line with my wife....

 

[StevenEleven]

Agreed. These speakers are in no way a referendum on the competence of Andrew Jones.

There’s definitely price bias going on, even here at ASR. F. Toole’s book makes clear you can get excellent sound at the $200 price point, I suspect even a little lower. And we get people saying how can that be, or oh those cheap speakers sound awful, or people looking under their pet rocks when we already pretty much know what the best cheap speakers are but they don’t want to accept it, or people here who say some people overdo it in seeking price performance ratio. Why? The way to resurrect this hobby, at least in part, is to demonstrate and inform that really good sound can be had for cheap. You want to bury this hobby once and for all by failing to communicate that superb sound is within reach of the average consumer? The extra bucks come into play for aesthetics, bass extension, fit and finish, build quality, production tolerances, eliminating the last bit of resonances, SPLs. . .otherwise SQ-wise the engineering is there to do it for $200 or less. These are not secrets. The corporate will may not always be there but the engineering is clearly there. Again, see F. Toole’s book. Pages 338-339.

That being said, I don’t think the speakers here in this review are the ones upon which to make the case for Andrew Jones, at least based on the measurements. I‘ve got two sets of his speakers and both are exceptional. Newton believed in alchemy. Tesla believed in a lot of crazy stuff. The Wright Brothers thought you could build flying machines. Oh wait. . .

With true creative passion and discovery comes a lot of hit and miss. Better to appreciate the full glory of the hits than dwell on the misses and completely miss the forest for the trees. IMHO.

 

[richard12511]

Agreed. These speakers are in no way a referendum on the competence of Andrew Jones.

There’s definitely price bias going on, even here at ASR. F. Toole’s book makes clear you can get excellent sound at the $200 price point, I suspect even a little lower. And we get people saying how can that be, or oh those cheap speakers sound awful, or people looking under their pet rocks when we already pretty much know what the best cheap speakers are but they don’t want to accept it, or people here who say some people overdo it in seeking price performance ratio. Say what? Are we trying to be dense? You want to bury this hobby once and for all with a case of the stupids because true excellence at the end point can be had on the cheap? The extra bucks come into play for aesthetics, bass extension, fit and finish, build quality, eliminating the last bit of resonances, SPLs. . .otherwise SQ-wise the engineering is there to do it for $200 or less. These are not secrets. The corporate will may not be there but the engineering is clearly there. Again, see F. Toole’s book. Pages 338-339.

That being said, I don’t think the speakers here in this review are the ones upon which to make the case for Andrew Jones, at least based on the measurements. I‘ve got two sets of his speakers and both are exceptional. Newton believed in alchemy. Tesla believed in a lot of crazy stuff. The Wright Brothers thought you could build flying machines. Oh wait. . .

With true creative passion and discovery comes a lot of hit and miss. Better to appreciate the full glory of the hits than dwell on the misses and completely miss the forest for the trees. IMHO.

I agree completely. Unfortunately, I think that's also the biggest reason why don't see measurements from legitimate engineering companies like Revel or Kef. If customers could see that the $1,000 model measures 95% as well as the $20,000 model, with the only difference being extension and output, would they be less likely to buy the more expensive model?

 

[Abe_W]

I have to say, I really don’t think it “comes down to whether you think Andrew Jones is competent or not.”

of course I don’t know left from right, but he did say he had set out to try something new for Elac.

(Edit: I deleted some passages above since it was repetitive) according to the article you linked he:

1: created a new bass drove enclosure and crossover essentially by himself based on designs he had not worked with for 25 years. Both of which he described as extremely difficult to do.

2: created a new tweeter based on designs he was unfamiliar with as a result of his inability to use metal tweeters

3: created a brand new midrange design and voice coil that would work with this tweeter.

All of this was also largely based on trial and error apparently, and after designing it he specifically said he went to build it “and start listening to it to see how I could get the bestperformance from it.”

it’s not like this is his 12th iteration with decades of research poured into it.

So, saying that it is a good speaker but has some flaws is certainly not the same thing as saying Andrew Jones is incompetent. He apparently took on an enormous task and it would be surprising if everything went perfectly. My hunch is he will lap back around with the metal tweeter and improved bass and higher cost...and that one will be a home run

and maybe this one already is, I have no idea, the combination of test results, user feedback, discontinuing it vs the incredible response it got upfront as well as being listed as an “a class” speaker by stereophile makes it SOO confusing. heck for all I know the testing is failing to address some sublime element of the speakers, they are spectacular but Elac has decided they can make way more more by modifying, rebranding and selling g it for 20k. Who knows?

however, I think it’s probably a little too big for my space anyway though I keep looking at it. I would be fine, but it might just cross the line with my wife....

I was implying that if i were to choose between who I'd trust more on competency levels.... Andrew Jones + John Atkinson Vs the guy who runs this forum.....I may have to go with Andrew and Atkinson here.

I mean...what does this reviewer dude's room even look like? I have a sneaky suspicion that this guy did a listening test in a lousy fking room. What did this guy's setup look like? What kinda sht electronics or good electronics does this guy use? What does this guy know about music? Does he even know what to listen for?.....A lotta questions come in play here.

I know, i know...many clowns on this forum think a budget low end sht box beats out everything else after they see a graph from this guy. There was some guy squawking earlier that the Pioneer BS-22LR is better than these (omfg facepalm!!,). And that's the typical squawker on this forum. Most reviews on here focus on budget gear and .....i guess this forum is good for just that (would make ya feel like a true winner cos you got some budget sht box that beat out everything else apparently!!). I have budget gear as well as electronics hugging 20k. i have/had many speakers at home including the Adantes and ones that retailed for 10 to 15 times more than the Adante. This is not my speaker for a lifetime. But, I can safely say that the Adante (especially the floorstander) is a steal for what you get. I mean, what is it? 2500 a pair for an open box now? Andrew's definitely throwing charity these days. If you have a sht room and sht electronics, yes, you should definitely stay away from this speaker. Otherwise, feel free to open it up and do a DIY tweak ( IF it already didn't sound fing immaculate in a treated room with high end electronics). Danny or someone at GR research might be able to help for real cheap. Either that or buy it when the price hits 20k sometime later for a future rev.

 

[richard12511]

I'd almost say I doubt the pioneers would win, but the whole point of the measurements being tied back to double blind testing is that sometimes people are deceived by expectations and appearances, even when it seems obvious a particular speaker will win. Familiarity has little do with it - even when Harman's own designers participate in blind tests, they can't pick out their own speakers all the time, and sometimes the much cheaper models win.

I'd say that the Adantes are all but guaranteed to sound better in a sighted comparison, just based on the way the human brain works. And when I say "sound better", it's not like it's "fake" per say. They really will sound better, even if the sound entering the ear canal is of lesser quality. So when people that own both speakers chime in saying the Adantes sound way better, I believe them, and I don't think that conflicts with the science. Increasing the price will increase the sound quality we hear, even if nothing else changes. Then you add a nicer looking cabinet. The science is based on blind listening tests, so sighted impressions don't contradict the measurements.

I think this is a really interesting example. The measurements are far enough apart for us to say that ~85% of people should prefer the cheaper model under blind level matched(with sub) conditions, yet the biases introduced by sighted comparison not only flip the results around to the opposite, but do so to the degree that it's "not even close". This is precisely the problem that the science is intended to fix. This is where you must ask yourself whether or not you believe the science. If the answer is no, then all these measurements are somewhat worthless. If we can't conclude that a 7.4 should beat a 5.9(most of the time), then there are truly very few scenarios in which we can conclude anything based on measurements. Personally, I choose to believe the science, but I also know that placebo is a real phenomenon(even in medicine), and we almost always listen sighted, so in some sense, what is preferred blind doesn't really matter.

I also don't think this negatively reflects on Andrew Jones. It's clear that Andrew was working in new territory here, whereas with the Pioneers he was right in his element. In loudspeaker design, implementation matters more than the materials used. It doesn't surprise me that a cheaper model could outperform a more expensive model under those circumstances. Also, as you mentioned, those results only apply under level matched and low passed conditions; without those, I would expect the Adante to win.

 

[richard12511]

I mean...what does this reviewer dude's room even look like? I have a sneaky suspicion that this guy did a listening test in a lousy fking room. What did this guy's setup look like? What kinda sht electronics or good electronics does this guy use? What does this guy know about music? Does he even know what to listen for?.....A lotta questions come in play here.

Amir's gear is actually exceptional($20k speakers and $50k amps), and I believe he has formal training on "what to listen for".

 

[jhaider]

Otherwise, feel free to open it up and do a DIY tweak ( IF it already didn't sound fing immaculate in a treated room with high end electronics). Danny or someone at GR research might be able to help for real cheap.

I wouldn’t let some internet barker who believes he has magic speaker connectors touch Andrew Jones’ work. Maybe that’s just me...

 

[Abe_W]

I wouldn’t let some internet barker who believes he has magic speaker connectors touch Andrew Jones’ work. Maybe that’s just me...

Right, right, clowns on this forum are not internet barkers!! At least, Danny helps out many of the guys out there with sht boxes (especially the Klipsch sht boxes). What'd you do or contribute to anyone?

 

[Abe_W]

I'd say that the Adantes are all but guaranteed to sound better in a sighted comparison, just based on the way the human brain works. And when I say "sound better", it's not like it's "fake" per say. They really will sound better, even if the sound entering the ear canal is of lesser quality. So when people that own both speakers chime in saying the Adantes sound way better, I believe them, and I don't think that conflicts with the science. Increasing the price will increase the sound quality we hear, even if nothing else changes. Then you add a nicer looking cabinet. The science is based on blind listening tests, so sighted impressions don't contradict the measurements.

I think this is a really interesting example. The measurements are far enough apart for us to say that ~85% of people should prefer the cheaper model under blind level matched(with sub) conditions, yet the biases introduced by sighted comparison not only flip the results around to the opposite, but do so to the degree that it's "not even close". This is precisely the problem that the science is intended to fix. This is where you must ask yourself whether or not you believe the science. If the answer is no, then all these measurements are somewhat worthless. If we can't conclude that a 7.4 should beat a 5.9(most of the time), then there are truly very few scenarios in which we can conclude anything based on measurements. Personally, I choose to believe the science, but I also know that placebo is a real phenomenon(even in medicine), and we almost always listen sighted, so in some sense, what is preferred blind doesn't really matter.

I also don't think this negatively reflects on Andrew Jones. It's clear that Andrew was working in new territory here, whereas with the Pioneers he was right in his element. In loudspeaker design, implementation matters more than the materials used. It doesn't surprise me that a cheaper model could outperform a more expensive model under those circumstances. Also, as you mentioned, those results only apply under level matched and low passed conditions; without those, I would expect the Adante to win.

It’s obvious that clowns who don’t seem to own this speaker or ever heard it properly set up (or never ever will) continue to bark the loudest.

So, do a simple exercise. Take a lousy sounding budget shtbox that measures alright ( there’s several of them out there). Take the crap crossover out and throw in a “better” one, replicate with the exact same values, but use higher quality components (solen caps, larger gage inductor whatever). Compare measurements as much as you please and when they measure identical, the one with the upgraded crossover will sound drastically different than the sht box with it’s original crossover. ASR reviewer dude’s infamous graphs wouldn’t catch one freaking difference though and all the squawker clowns will claim that the sht box sounded great to begin with!

I have yet to see one graph from the reviewer’s graphs that map to any benefit of the coupled cavity implementation…nothing on attenuated undesirable harmonics…nothing much at all. Looks like regular run of the mill measurements fit for a budget boom box. If I listened and said that this speaker is highly resolving, has incredibly refined bass, images way better than a boom box, etc, etc ASR reviewer dude’s graphs can’t show anything there either. He must think his graphs captures every aspect of the listening experience and his instrumentation has zero limitations. Squawking forum clowns need to spend sleepless nights, burn a few candles, get a few engineering degrees and go do real work in industry…. Might learn a few lessons in humility along the way...

 

[Jon AA]

Take the crap crossover out and throw in a “better” one, replicate with the exact same values, but use higher quality components (solen caps, larger gage inductor whatever). Compare measurements as much as you please and when they measure identical, the one with the upgraded crossover will sound drastically different than the sht box with it’s original crossover.

Hook, line and sinker. You forgot the tube connectors. $50 very well spent. Drastically different! I'm happy for you that spending your money on such things makes you happy.

 

[Pepperjack]

Regardless of who is more “competent” comparing what was done to create the Adante from scratch to what was done to measure it is a truly childish logic.

It’s obvious that clowns who don’t seem to own this speaker or ever heard it properly set up (or never ever will) continue to bark the loudest.

So, do a simple exercise. Take a lousy sounding budget shtbox that measures alright ( there’s several of them out there). Take the crap crossover out and throw in a “better” one, replicate with the exact same values, but use higher quality components (solen caps, larger gage inductor whatever). Compare measurements as much as you please and when they measure identical, the one with the upgraded crossover will sound drastically different than the sht box with it’s original crossover. ASR reviewer dude’s infamous graphs wouldn’t catch one freaking difference though and all the squawker clowns will claim that the sht box sounded great to begin with!

I have yet to see one graph from the reviewer’s graphs that map to any benefit of the coupled cavity implementation…nothing on attenuated undesirable harmonics…nothing much at all. Looks like regular run of the mill measurements fit for a budget boom box. If I listened and said that this speaker is highly resolving, has incredibly refined bass, images way better than a boom box, etc, etc ASR reviewer dude’s graphs can’t show anything there either. He must think his graphs captures every aspect of the listening experience and his instrumentation has zero limitations. Squawking forum clowns need to spend sleepless nights, burn a few candles, get a few engineering degrees and go do real work in industry…. Might learn a few lessons in humility along the way...

it’s such a shame you can’t present your positions in an intellectual and civil manner, as it sounds like you might actually be able to share something useful.

 

[Jon AA]

as it sounds like you might actually be able to share something useful.

Or probably not.

 

[MoviesnMusic]

Enough insults please! Not needed. This is a great place to learn. It's up to each person to weed out the BS. Someone is making themself look like the real clown.