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Easiest way to DRC?

vvvyper

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Dec 1, 2024
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Hi everyone!

I use roon, audiocd, flac, everything by a PC with emu 1212m connected to a Denon 1909 (in pure, bypassing Denon DAC).

My question: I am not happy or Audissey. What's the easiest way to get a good room correction? I was thinking to buy a minidsp flex with dirac license.

For roon, I could put the convolution file.

Any suggestions? Budget <700 usd
 
You have measuring gear? I wouldn't judge Audyssey by the old XT version alone.

ps looking at the 1909 it doesn't appear to even have XT, just basic MultEQ, which is even less reason to use it to judge Audyssey with.....
 
Roon's website has some tutorials and I found it pretty easy, but got what wanted quickly and moved on. Far from an expert. A different approach to stereo some good discussion here
 
Also, how would you integrate the minidsp with the Denon or would you be using something else?
 
Also, how would you integrate the minidsp with the Denon or would you be using something else?
Hi! My idea on Audissey is regarding the Audissey of the 1909 itself :) tried many times. I am always more happy when I turn it off :) how to implement: I believe between pc and ampli with convolution file in it. Right?
 
If you're primarily playing from computer files or stream I'd go for the Dirac PC standalone version so you can keep your license indefinitely. If you have sub(s) DLBC is worth it in my opinion, regular DL is lacking resolution in the sub bass region. No need to get redundant hardware with software crippled and tied to the device. Definitely going to need a Umik if you don't already have one. Dirac requires multiple iterations to get it right, don't trust the first tries and definitely validate everything in REW.
 
I agree that Dirac PC could be a solution. Any way I cannot understand if Dirac PC affects my EMU 1212m DAC performance. I mean:how can it "adjust" the signal without affecting DAC functionality? AM I wrong? That's why I had in mind minidsp flex or DDRC24 (and I cant understand difference).
Arc Studio seems also to be an alternative.
 
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Dirac won't affect anything on the hardware side (except your speakers) of your chain. Dirac for PC can be used as a VST type plugin but also provides it's own virtual cable so you can select it as an audio output device within Roon or systemwide.

The biggest problem with hardware based Dirac implementations is the lack of processing power which limits the amount of EQ you can apply especially at lower frequencies. If your main source is computer based there is tons extra computational power available to apply corrections with. There are many threads on ASR about Dirac and it's value and limitations you should check out, plenty of other alternatives too but it all starts with REW and a measurement mic.
 
Hi! My idea on Audissey is regarding the Audissey of the 1909 itself :) tried many times. I am always more happy when I turn it off :) how to implement: I believe between pc and ampli with convolution file in it. Right?
That's a primitive version compared to what you can do now with XT32 and the editor app or the multeq-x app or the various Audyssey One variations from @OCA

What input to the avr will you use from the pc?
 
Dirac won't affect anything on the hardware side (except your speakers) of your chain. Dirac for PC can be used as a VST type plugin but also provides it's own virtual cable so you can select it as an audio output device within Roon or systemwide.

The biggest problem with hardware based Dirac implementations is the lack of processing power which limits the amount of EQ you can apply especially at lower frequencies. If your main source is computer based there is tons extra computational power available to apply corrections with. There are many threads on ASR about Dirac and it's value and limitations you should check out, plenty of other alternatives too but it all starts with REW and a measurement mic.
I see. Just wondering if the licence of Dirac I get is only for the minidsp or can be used standalone
 
I'd buy a UMIK-1 and give https://www.loudspeakers.audio a try, with the resulting convolution files loaded into Roon.

If it doesn't work out, you can still use your UMIK with the Flex+Dirac, and won't have wasted anything on the preceding room correction solution.
I read quite a few articles on minidsp flex. To my specific case, would a ddrc-24 be enough? What could I lose? if I put Dirac on flex, ddrc-24 is about half the price. I read that Dac is different, but difference is really audible?

And: I read about calculation power. Would a PC-based solution (not a problem for me since I stream only by PC) be really better? I know it's cheaper but I assume that "box" solutions are ready for future changes.
 
I read quite a few articles on minidsp flex. To my specific case, would a ddrc-24 be enough? What could I lose? if I put Dirac on flex, ddrc-24 is about half the price. I read that Dac is different, but difference is really audible?

1. The measurable differences between decent DAC's are below the threshold of audibility. Some "audiophile" DAC's which were designed with misguided notions may have much worse performance to the point that differences are audible (and maybe even preferred by some). But even those tiny differences will be swamped by DSP. ANY form of DSP will have a much more profound impact on the sound than any miniscule measurable differences that may exist between DAC's. By several orders of magnitude. Take home message: don't worry about the quality of the DAC, worry about the quality of the DSP.

2. PC based DSP vs. hardware based (e.g MiniDSP). The difference is that PC's have vastly more computational power than those SHARC DSP chips. What this means is that you can use linear-phase FIR filters with high tap counts, e.g. 65536 taps or more. Because of its limitations, MiniDSP must use mixed-phase DSP - in other words, minimum-phase IIR with a cascaded FIR filter (typically with only 1024 taps per channel).

I realise that you may not understand what all this means. If you are interested, you can google the difference between linear-phase FIR and minimum-phase IIR if you want more detail. In a nutshell, linear-phase FIR does not introduce additional phase rotation so it is easier to design. It arguably also sounds better since there is no phase distortion. However it comes at the cost of requiring more computing power, additional latency, and potential pre-ringing. There are many more differences between them that I can not cover in a forum post.

The most important aspect of any DSP is the user. If you take bad measurements, or use the wrong DSP strategy, bad results will follow. It does not matter if you have the most high-end DSP system with the world's fastest PC or best DAC in the world. DSP software simply does what it's told. If you don't know what you are doing, you can potentially ruin the sound.

There are many DSP software packages on the market. Dirac is probably the easiest to use, but it achieves its ease of use by removing controls from the user. It is also the most expensive and the least flexible. And there are many complaints that it is a buggy nightmare that sends corrections the wrong way, fails to correct more than one subwoofer in a multi-subwoofer setup, causes bass to "go missing", etc. I personally would not use Dirac, but there really isn't a better option for beginners.

The best DSP requires human eyes and human brains making decisions. But this means there is a massive learning curve if you want to do it yourself.

Another option is to use a DSP calibration service such as Accurate Sound by @mitchco or Home Audio Fidelity. You pay them for their time, and they walk you through the measurement process and make a set of filters for you. This will result in the highest quality filters possible. Since it's a human and not an algorithm which is making your filters, you can complain to them if you don't like the filters ;)
 
Many Many thanks for detailed answering! SO I see here two approaches for me:

1) I use Dirac, having in mind I could learn something more. In this case, I believe, I could try the standalone sw that should have more degrees or freedom. If I try a boxed solution, I can be lucky or not. Since I have less degrees of freedom to change (of course, after learning before shomething...but I like to go deep).

2) I suppose that Accurate Sound and Home Audio Fidelity should be similar to https://www.loudspeakers.audio right? But I see much different prices! Am I losing something important?

Did I sum up correctly?
 
2) I suppose that Accurate Sound and Home Audio Fidelity should be similar to https://www.loudspeakers.audio right? But I see much different prices! Am I losing something important?

I believe that loudspeakers.audio is an automated algorithm-based solution. Accurate Sound and HAF are actual people. @mitchco who runs Accurate Sound is on ASR. I don't think Thierry from HAF is here.
 
Thanks @Keith_W

@vvvyper DRC s/w features/capabilities can vary wildly depending on the product. It is hard to know which DRC software provides the best or ideal correction. There are several technical selection criteria that separates the "middle of the road," where over 80% of the DRC products reside, as compared to the state of the art. I made a video to describe the ideal DRC software correction and the three DRC s/w products that meet that criteria:


In the case of my DRC calibration service, if one of the 3 SOTA DRC s/w packages is optionally purchased, in addition to the correction filters delivered, a 20 minute video walkthrough is developed taking your measurements, final target curve, and FIR filter designer settings and teach you how to fish, so to speak. Not only to replicate the end result, but also point out areas of adjustment for experimentation, if you are so inclined.

With the service, and optional video walkthrough, you are getting the benefit of 14 years of DRC experience and I have customed designed DRC FIR filters for over 300 systems of all types. It is the shortest path to becoming self sufficient in designing your own custom FIR filters for your own system. That's why the price difference :cool:

The service is end to end, as in 95% of the cases, the original room measurements taken are not ideal, so we usually start from scratch.

For me, it is fun to meet people, hear their audio story, and feedback when one optimally matches speakers to room. Most folks don't know the possibilities their system is capable of.
 
I will just add that if you are able to use a Windows PC as your source, MathAudio RoomEQ is free for use with Foobar2000. It is extremely easy to use
There is however a bit of a learning curve with Foobar.
 
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