EARS! - hearing response is important!

[milosz]

For the sake of transparency I think all "subjective" audio critics should publish results of annual hearing tests. Some of these subjectivists have told me that "it doesn't matter" ( ahem - Michael Fremer) but I strongly disagree.

Saying that hearing acuity doesn't matter for audio critics is like saying, yeah that blind art critic's review of the Vermeer exhibit is spot on....

I don't think there's any basis to trust opinions of treble response if the critic cannot hear much above 10 kHz, and given the entrenched nature of the "elite" audio critics it's a good bet that many of these geezers have VERY limited ability to hear actual high treble.

Aside from the reduced ability to gauge high frequency reproduction, high range hearing is crucial in discerning distortion. I think this is one of the reasons that many of these critics judge vinyl to be superior to digital - they can't hear the distortion products from the 13% THD inherent in vinyl playback at 6 kHz etc.

Ears are NOT microphones.

(NOTE I'm 71 years old and my recent hearing exam shows almost no ability to hear above 13 kHz.)

 

[xanalog]

I don't think Micheal Fremer (or any critic, trying to make a living) is going to throw in the towel because of a fungible exam.

...(NOTE I'm 71 years old and my recent hearing exam shows almost no ability to hear above 13 kHz.)...

For the sake of transparency...

... I must admit that this is the exact reason I've shunned taking hearing exams.

I am good to go as is, and the exam results may be too depressing at my (our) age group.
It's all about mind-over-matter when it comes to hearing anyways. Especially since, no one has invented a blue-pill to counter the age-degradation, yet!

 

[NTK]

Hearing loss also makes us inconsistent (and therefore unreliable, even in well controlled double blind tests) judges of sound quality. Per Dr Toole ...

I would add only that the problem with non-neutral loudspeakers is that they add the same monotonous coloration to absolutely everything that is played through them. One can adapt to this to some extent, but in my experience, when something more neutral is heard it is obvious, and preferred. Most people never get to experience a valid, blind, equal loudness comparison test. As Newman said, hearing loss is a factor in preference, but it shows up not only as a fixed bias in preference but also as rating inconsistencies in repeated auditions of exactly the same sound - love it in the morning, hate it in the afternoon has been observed.

 

[Quinton595]

I'm glad someone else has thought this. I'm only in my early 30s, but I got a hearing test done for the heck of it (and to quantify my tinnitus) while my parents were getting some done. My results came back with essentially zero hearing loss whatsoever, except for a small dip in the frequency range of my tinnitus.

The doc said with these results I might never suffer age-related hearing loss, and man I hope he's right, I try hard to protect my hearing. But it definitely made me realize how much of what we do with EQ isn't about approaching a Harmon curve, or about fixing resonances or whatever, it's often also a matter of compensating for our hearing loss, and the unique aspects of our ear and inner-ear anatomy that affect our HRTF and such.

Any would-be critic should absolutely post their hearing test results.

 

[Redacted]

I've no interest in what critics /review say subjectively - it's all made up by a sticking a pin in a random list of weird adjectives and the objective is clicks, freebies or ad revenue.

 

[Floyd Toole]

Chapter 16 in the 4th edition of my book describes much of what happens to our hearing as we age and expose ourselves to high sound levels (disease and drugs also are factors). In summary, a conventional audiometric test of hearing thresholds (the smallest sound we can hear) is roughly equivalent to judging the performance of a car by kicking its tires. There is much, much more to the story. Elevated hearing thresholds mean that we lose the ability to hear low-level sounds, but higher-level sounds may be quite normal - or not, depending on the individual. We may even become less accepting of very high level sounds (hyperacusis).

Adding greatly to the uncertainties is binaural hearing, which can deteriorate with or without threshold shifts. It alters how we localize sounds, and how we distinguish between direct and reflected sounds in rooms. Degraded speech intelligibility in restaurants is a common example - I hear you but I don't understand you.

Changes in our hearing even influence our perception of musical timbre and harmony. Fortunately, humans adapt to many of these things as they gradually change with age and exposure, but the fact is that listeners with degraded hearing all have opinions, but their opinions may not be trustworthy (different at different exposures to the same sounds) and unique (their own, not for sharing). Why? They don't hear all of the sound, not just the high frequencies, and they don't hear it in the same way that listeners with normal hearing do. Hearing aids, tone controls or EQ cannot restore normal hearing.

I was a very good listener in my early years, but I retired from the double-blind listening tests at age 60 - my judgments were measurably less consistent and I could tell that it was becoming increasingly difficult to identify small differences in sound quality. My hearing thresholds at the time were significantly better than presbycusis (the normal age related hearing loss), so other factors were responsible.

Subjective reviewers are notoriously unreliable judges of loudspeaker performance unless they have access to accurate and comprehensive anechoic data to help them separate what the loudspeaker is doing from those characteristics that are in the program itself. Most such reviews are arguably more record reviews than loudspeaker reviews. For some people it is an occupation, for others a hobby, but their opinions in many cases are just "noise".

The increasingly widespread availability of spinorma data has changed things - the playing field is much more level now. Thanks to Amir and Erin and an increasing number of competent and candid loudspeaker manufacturers. Learn how to interpret measurements, choose your loudspeakers, then listen and use tone controls or EQ to compensate for program variations or your own preferences - which are likely to be program dependent. It is always good to be able to return to neutral reproduction to hear what might have been recorded. It is art, so not all of it is equally rewarding.

 

[DSJR]

I thought I had good hearing and judgement in my career - many dealers when younger could share similar feelings about certain gear despite different rooms, tastes and so on, as long as commission bases didn't come into it. Once I passed 60, my hearing changed quite rapidly, or at least its failings that were hinted at in a 2012 or so hearing test, became borderline severe by 2021 or so, when our telly's 'soundbase' simply sounded dull, no matter what I did with the settings (little hf disdpersdion, but the hearing aids more than fixed it!).

Like a reformed smoker becoming almost violently anti-smoking, I get seriously annoyed when subjectivist forum members go on about 'trusting one's ears' and 'our ears are all we've got and measurements don't tell the whole story!' You folks know what I'm talking about. I still need to see what different dispersion/directivity patterns would do for loudspeaker listening in this overdamped (soft furnishings and carpet) room.

 

[Barrelhouse Solly]

I've worn hearing aids for over 10 years. With them in my high frequency hearing rolls off above 8KHz. With them out the roll off begins at 2KHz. I'm aware of it and don't expect to be a skilled listener. I can hear things like overemphasis in mid bass but I'm not claiming any ability to discriminate between various speakers' ability to reproduce ride cymbals and high hats. The only real disappointment for me is that many over the ear headphones cause feedback no matter how I position them. Also the difference between my left and right ear makes it impossible to get an equal volume level in both ears. The left is too weak. The good thing for me is that my threshold is high enough that I don't perceive distortion others do. It saves me money on gear.

 

[mpw]

The mid-range is the most important frequency as most recordings emphasis that anyway. I wouldn't want a reviewer that wears hearing-aids to review components but as long as theirs and mine is above average that is good enough for me and most listeners. Who has perfect hearing ?

 

[LTig]

[..] ... I must admit that this is the exact reason I've shunned taking hearing exams.

I am good to go as is, and the exam results may be too depressing at my (our) age group.
It's all about mind-over-matter when it comes to hearing anyways. Especially since, no one has invented a blue-pill to counter the age-degradation, yet!

This is not a good idea. I bought a IR headphone at the audiologist of my mother in law since she raised the volume of the TV so high it was impossible to stay in the same room. I reported her problems with her hearing aids ("they don't help") and he told me that she came 10 years too late, like many people in Germany. He offered me a listening tests which was quite bad so he recommended that I visit a specialist. I did so and the specialist said that I don't need hearing aids yet. 6 years later though I needed them.

To prevent coming too late (meaning that hearing aids no longer help a lot regarding speech intelligibility as the brain cells and synapses, having no input, reorganized themselves for other tasks) you should do regularly listening tests and use hearing aids too not lose to much speech intelligibility.

 

[DSJR]

Interestingly and maybe volume related, I seriously enjoy the Jcally JM20 Max with Xero 2 iems, total cost less than fifty quid! Using them now playing 'Flower of Life' by System 7 at a *clean* volume and with no obvious loss of top, totally bypassing the tinnitus. This cheap little rig has been a music lifesaver for me and in th emuch derided Linn terms of old, it 'plays tunes/harmonies' and 'pr@ts' seriously well