Dynaudio X14 Speaker Review

[Pearljam5000]

Sorry if derailing a little, but I just noticed: is this a multiple entry horn mated to that compression driver? That'd be quite cool.

Unfortunately i don't know.
But Genelec is always cool anyways

 

[andreasmaaan]

Sorry if derailing a little, but I just noticed: is this a multiple entry horn mated to that compression driver? That'd be quite cool.

According to Genelec, it is not. But I'm not sure what function those little vents or pads on the tweeter waveguide fulfil...

 

[restorer-john]

That's a bevel. Not a waveguide.

Any physical structure which directly affects the dispersion/propagation characteristics of the tweeter in a controlled manner, may be referred to as a waveguide. A so-called "acoustic lens" is also a form of waveguide (and tweeter protector).

And just because a waveguide doesn't have a flared/throated/horned or an ASR approved 3D CAD-looking assymetric design, doesn't mean it isn't intentional, carefully designed and does exactly what is required in terms of dispersion for the application.

Here's a few tweeters shots from some speakers lying around my loungeroom.

Where does your "bevel" end and a waveguide start?

 

[hardisj]

The ones you show look like they serve a meaningful purpose. The Dyn does not (appear to serve a meaningful purpose).
I know. Weird hill to die on.

 

[Matias]

The ones you show look like they serve a meaningful purpose. The Dyn does not.
I know. Weird hill to die on.

It's your word against the word of the actual designers. My money would be on them.

 

[hardisj]

It's your word against the word of the actual designers. My money would be on them.

(said in joking manner, in case the smiley's don't give it away)

 

[jtwrace]

Th-is is a waveguide
View attachment 93949

As is this:

 

[jtwrace]

Some reading too.

http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/What is a Waveguide.pdf

http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/directivity.pdf

 

[detlev24]

As is this:
View attachment 94058

Isn't this a horn?

 

[Count Arthur]

Isn't this a horn?

Yes, but it might also be a waveguide: "all waveguides are horns, but not all horns are waveguides."

http://www.gedlee.com/Papers/What is a Waveguide.pdf

 

[Pearljam5000]

As is this:
View attachment 94058

The only downside is that it's very similarly looking to much cheaper models

 

[jtwrace]

The only downside is that it's very similarly looking to much cheaper models View attachment 94059

It's the same waveguide scaled down. Smart Engineering!

 

[Ericglo]

The only downside is that it's very similarly looking to much cheaper models View attachment 94059

It was developed for the all conquering M2. JBL realized that they could use it in multiple models. And why wouldn't they? Why spend money designing a lesser performing waveguide?

It should be mentioned that Charles Sprinkle said that it may not be the optimum waveguide design. Of course, he may be biased as he had left JBL and went to work with Kali.

 

[andreasmaaan]

It should be mentioned that Charles Sprinkle said that it may not be the optimum waveguide design. Of course, he may be biased as he had left JBL and went to work with Kali.

Interesting, do you have a link to more info on that?

 

[Ericglo]

Interesting, do you have a link to more info on that?

I think it was in a reddit thread that Kali did. I remember looking to see if he would discuss the differences and he mentioned it. I don't believe he went into detail, but I can't recall. It may be in this one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/9ne8ce
https://www.mixonline.com/technolog...oped-m2-and-re-ignited-its-studio-line-383733
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/an-...-director-of-acoustics-for-kali-audio.918189/

 

[Ericglo]

It wasn't to far into that thread.

We are having a third party do those measurements, and will publish them on our website as soon as we have them.
The Image Control waveguide was designed to provide individual control of vertical and horizontal coverage and lower pattern control frequency. It was also constant directivity. The Kali waveguide has an elliptical waveguide with a sound power that drops at about 1dB per octave. This creates less of an inflection in the soundpower than a constant directivity waveguide and in our opinion sounds more neutral. By controlling the spacing of the transducers and vertical pattern, we were able to optimize system integration.



level 2
80a218c2840a890f02ff

1 point·2 years ago

Thanks for the detailed reply. I've wondered what the "ideal" sound power curve might be for some time. My own speakers are basically constant directivity (the sound power falls ~1dB between 1.9kHz (the crossover frequency) and 10kHz).




level 3
Kali_Audifficial

1 point·2 years ago

The woofer has a soundpower that is esentially the same as the on-axis response at low frequencies. It falls off at higher frequencies as the system becomes more directional. If the HF is constant directivity, this puts an inflection in the soundpower at the crossover point. Both HF and LF could have a smooth response, but there is still an inflection. This can affect perceived timbre. By having a controlled directivity waveguide with a small soundpower slope, we can minimixe the inflection in the sound power and in-room response.

 

[Ericglo]

Another quote.

The Image Control waveguide on the M2s actually had defined coverage and smooth response in the oblique planes. Because the waveguide needs an expanding cross sectional area, the "knuckles" were used on the horizontal and vertical planes to move the upper pattern control frequency higher, but the obliques could not. as a result, the upper pattern control frequency in the oblique planes was significantly lower. this could potentially affect perceived timbre. The solution, of course, would be to have a compression driver with a 1" exit, at the expense of higher distortion from the non-linearity of air at higher SPL.
A well designed diffraction waveguide should not impart sonic coloration if the diffraction feature is blended to smear the reflection in time. This actually reduces the reflection back down the throat and associated frequency response (and impulse response) anomalies.



level 2
ilkless

1 point·2 years ago

Thank you for the excellent answers!

diffraction feature is blended to smear the reflection in time​

So this smearing isn't something that we can perceive?




level 3
Kali_Audifficial

4 points·2 years ago

From Charles:
I'm not aware of any controlled experiments with subjective analysis on this. From my own experience, I have not been able to hear artifacts from blended diffraction features so long as the impulse response and frequency response are good.

 

[vavan]

Excite X38

Canton Vento 896

Both x38 and 896.2 were on my short list among few others but couldn't resist f208

 

[TimVG]

It's your word against the word of the actual designers. My money would be on them.

Well according to the measurements on page 1, it's not doing a good job, regardless of what their PR department calls it.

 

[neph]

Οverall, the X14 measures pretty well:

X14 Frequency response: +/-2.5dB 80Hz-20kHz
M105 " " : +/-2.8dB 80Hz-20kHz

Regarding the waveguide thing:
ATC also refers to its new tweeter as "short throat waveguide"
http://www.acousticfrontiers.com/atc-speakers-technology/

Judging by the comments, have we reached a point that a waveguide is a "must-have" for superior directivity thus sound quality?
If yes, why don't more big OEMs use them?

Also even the best dome+shallow waveguide combos fall way short to the pattern control abilities of a good horn+ modern compression driver combo.

Considering a)the ease that the compression driver's response can be linearised,b)the considerably higher headroom and c)ignoring aesthetics, the latter combo guarantees higher performance versus the former. Or doesn't?