Dynaudio Special 40 - WTF!

[thewas]

I don't know how correct his measurements are but if it is true my way more cheaper Emit M20 is top notch comparing with Special 40

The M10 has been also measured by SoundStage and while also also not being a linearity wonder, at least it doesn't show those nasty mid resonances:
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153
https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...&catid=77:loudspeaker-measurements&Itemid=153

 

[TankTop]

I may have my speakers checked out at an authorized dealer to see if they are damaged or if I’m experiencing some of the issues mentioned here. I’m not experienced enough to use the correct vocabulary but even a little head movement outside a “triangle” seating position changes the sound dramatically. Also I can put my head directly in front of a speaker and move up and down, left and right and some positions feel almost like an “inversion layer” change at certain frequencies.

Don’t get me wrong the speaker is a beast and a blast to listen to and the Esotar tweeter is amazing... the speaker is just a little weird.

 

[puppet]

That's one of the issues with a first order filter network .. dispersion. As you move up/down/side/to side each drivers phase changes causing cancellations within the response. This is most apparent in first orders because of the individual driver(s) increased response overlap.

These tweeters are working down to 4-500hz and the woofer up to maybe 8-9khz. Quite a lot to ask of some drivers.

 

[TankTop]

Here is my email to Danny and his response. I will admit that I still don’t understand all the testing but I do believe that honest peer review is healthy.

I only edited out my full name and personal cell phone number. I promise I used punctuation, I have no clue where it went???

To GR-Research

​

Comment
This is a copy of the email I sent to Audio Science Review. What are your thoughts?


I’ve owned a pair of S40’s for almost 2 years and while they are “subjectively” (which I agree with) a magical pair of speakers they have their shortcomings. GR-Research just came out with an “upgrade kit” which sound like per their YouTube video to address some of my concerns I would be willing to to lend my pair to before and after testing if GR-Research was also willing to contribute. I don’t know what that would look like as I haven’t asked but maybe your testing and assembly of the kit before and and after, GR-Research donating a kit and my supply of speakers and shipping to and from with acceptance of results positive or negative at my cost/risk. I’ll send this same message to GR-Research and see his response, I understand this would be a three party acceptance and I’m willing to make concessions.

His reply:

Hello Mike,

Keep in mind that the guys over there really don't know anything and can't tell you anything about how anything sounds. They can simply measure them. I can do that as well and have, and those measurements have already been shared with everyone on the video.

They are not a reviewer. They don't listen to anything or try to compare subjective outcomes with objective measured differences.

And they have an agenda to disprove everything that is well known in the industry regarding what we hear or don't hear.

So doing anything with them is just headed down a dead end road that helps no one.

I have orders in here now for about 7 of those upgrade kits so far. Within a month or so quite a few may have implemented their upgrades and will begin confirming what a significant upgrade this is. You can be one of them if you want. Just order the upgrade and follow the instructions to install it all. Then listen and enjoy. That was a significant upgrade.

Danny



​

 

[richard12511]

Here is my email to Danny and his response. I will admit that I still don’t understand all the testing but I do believe that honest peer review is healthy.

I only edited out my full name and personal cell phone number. I promise I used punctuation, I have no clue where it went???

To GR-Research

​

Comment
This is a copy of the email I sent to Audio Science Review. What are your thoughts?


I’ve owned a pair of S40’s for almost 2 years and while they are “subjectively” (which I agree with) a magical pair of speakers they have their shortcomings. GR-Research just came out with an “upgrade kit” which sound like per their YouTube video to address some of my concerns I would be willing to to lend my pair to before and after testing if GR-Research was also willing to contribute. I don’t know what that would look like as I haven’t asked but maybe your testing and assembly of the kit before and and after, GR-Research donating a kit and my supply of speakers and shipping to and from with acceptance of results positive or negative at my cost/risk. I’ll send this same message to GR-Research and see his response, I understand this would be a three party acceptance and I’m willing to make concessions.

His reply:

Hello Mike,

Keep in mind that the guys over there really don't know anything and can't tell you anything about how anything sounds. They can simply measure them. I can do that as well and have, and those measurements have already been shared with everyone on the video.

They are not a reviewer. They don't listen to anything or try to compare subjective outcomes with objective measured differences.

And they have an agenda to disprove everything that is well known in the industry regarding what we hear or don't hear.

So doing anything with them is just headed down a dead end road that helps no one.

I have orders in here now for about 7 of those upgrade kits so far. Within a month or so quite a few may have implemented their upgrades and will begin confirming what a significant upgrade this is. You can be one of them if you want. Just order the upgrade and follow the instructions to install it all. Then listen and enjoy. That was a significant upgrade.

Danny



​

There are a lot of lies in that response. Amir listens to every speaker he reviews, and Danny knows that full well. Sad to see him lie like that in an attempt to avoid having his mods measured by Amir. He also knows full well that his measurements are nowhere close to as in depth and useful as Amir's, yet he says "I can measure too".

 

[YSDR]

That's one of the issues with a first order filter network .. dispersion. As you move up/down/side/to side each drivers phase changes causing cancellations within the response. This is most apparent in first orders because of the individual driver(s) increased response overlap.

These tweeters are working down to 4-500hz and the woofer up to maybe 8-9khz. Quite a lot to ask of some drivers.

The Dynaudio S40 doesn’t use acoustically first-order slopes, just a marketing gimmick in the specification that suggests it’s a truly “special” speaker.
A first order crossover step response doesn't look like this, this is a typical 2-way, 4th order step response:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-special-forty-loudspeaker-measurements

 

[thewas]

He also knows full well that his measurements are nowhere close to as in depth and useful as Amir's, yet he says "I can measure too".

I am quite positive he also partially knows the problems of his crossover as he focuses mainly on the vertical angle measurements and only shortly shows the problematic horizontal one:

Everyone experienced with crossover tuning knows that similar should be avoided as his loudspeaker will have a sound power peak at the middle of the presence region where most loudspeakers have rather a dip (also many monitors on which a lot of music was mastered with) and sound quite tiring unless listened in the close nearfield.

 

[thewas]

The Dynaudio S40 doesn’t use acoustically first-order slopes, just a marketing gimmick in the specification that suggests it’s a truly “special” speaker.
A first order crossover step response doesn't look like this, this is a typical 2-way, 4th order step response:
View attachment 122757
https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-special-forty-loudspeaker-measurements

Correct, there exist almost no loudspeakers with acoustical first oder slopes (as drivers have usually already their own slopes and that is positive), this was an old marketing lie or misconception from Dynaudio and other some other companies and even Dynaudio doesn't use it in the last years.

 

[EB1000]

What HIFI giving it 5/5 score claiming it to have:

• Bold, dynamic and detailed sound
• Pleasing bass weight and agility
• Surefooted rhythmic drive
• Excellent build and finish

 

[YSDR]

I am quite positive he also partially knows the problems of his crossover as he focuses mainly on the vertical angle measurements and only shortly shows the problematic horizontal one:

View attachment 122758

Everyone experienced with crossover tuning knows that similar should be avoided as his loudspeaker will have a sound power peak at the middle of the presence region where most loudspeakers have rather a dip (also many monitors on which a lot of music was mastered with) and sound quite tiring unless listened in the close nearfield.

It is very typical horizontal off-axis response for cone woofer and non-waveguided dome tweeter combination. That off-axis peak only avoidable if the on-axis have a huge dip at that region, at least with this speaker.
There is another misleading from Dynaudio because they claim to use waveguides, just only very small ones (we can see). Yes, it is very small, that is true, but it is so small that it is completely ineffective where it would be most needed.
Dynaudio on their waveguides

 

[richard12511]

I am quite positive he also partially knows the problems of his crossover as he focuses mainly on the vertical angle measurements and only shortly shows the problematic horizontal one:

View attachment 122758

Everyone experienced with crossover tuning knows that similar should be avoided as his loudspeaker will have a sound power peak at the middle of the presence region where most loudspeakers have rather a dip (also many monitors on which a lot of music was mastered with) and sound quite tiring unless listened in the close nearfield.

I had that same thought when watching his review. I was thinking "Damn, go back. You just glossed over that obvious directivity error way too quickly". It was like one sentence, something along the lines of "there's a little error here, but it's not too bad", and then he just moved on.

 

[thewas]

t is very typical horizontal off-axis response for cone woofer and non-waveguided dome tweeter combination. That off-axis peak only avoidable if the on-axis have a huge dip at that region, at least with this speaker.

Correct, but experienced loudspeaker developers (like for example old BBC school type) tried usually either to put the peak at a different frequency and/or combine it with an on-axis dip.

 

[YSDR]

Correct, but experienced loudspeaker developers (like for example old BBC school type) tried usually either to put the peak at a different frequency and/or combine it with an on-axis dip.

Yes, and I think this is one reason for the so called BBC dip.

 

[daftcombo]

Here is my email to Danny and his response. I will admit that I still don’t understand all the testing but I do believe that honest peer review is healthy.

I only edited out my full name and personal cell phone number. I promise I used punctuation, I have no clue where it went???

To GR-Research

​

Comment
This is a copy of the email I sent to Audio Science Review. What are your thoughts?


I’ve owned a pair of S40’s for almost 2 years and while they are “subjectively” (which I agree with) a magical pair of speakers they have their shortcomings. GR-Research just came out with an “upgrade kit” which sound like per their YouTube video to address some of my concerns I would be willing to to lend my pair to before and after testing if GR-Research was also willing to contribute. I don’t know what that would look like as I haven’t asked but maybe your testing and assembly of the kit before and and after, GR-Research donating a kit and my supply of speakers and shipping to and from with acceptance of results positive or negative at my cost/risk. I’ll send this same message to GR-Research and see his response, I understand this would be a three party acceptance and I’m willing to make concessions.

His reply:

Hello Mike,

Keep in mind that the guys over there really don't know anything and can't tell you anything about how anything sounds. They can simply measure them. I can do that as well and have, and those measurements have already been shared with everyone on the video.

They are not a reviewer. They don't listen to anything or try to compare subjective outcomes with objective measured differences.

And they have an agenda to disprove everything that is well known in the industry regarding what we hear or don't hear.

So doing anything with them is just headed down a dead end road that helps no one.

I have orders in here now for about 7 of those upgrade kits so far. Within a month or so quite a few may have implemented their upgrades and will begin confirming what a significant upgrade this is. You can be one of them if you want. Just order the upgrade and follow the instructions to install it all. Then listen and enjoy. That was a significant upgrade.

Danny



​

This is an incredibly dishonest answer. If people who do measurements attack other people who do measurements, where do we go?

 

[Deleted member 2944]

Danny is smarter than most of the people on this forum. He's co-opting the interest from ASR (and others) and turning it into business for his company.
He likes the attention and doesn't care how he's labeled because it's adding to his bottom line in any case. His reputation (or "reputation") is well enough established at this point.

With threads like this, the focus of ASR has become so diffuse that it's devolving into just another boring audio forum.

Dave.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Danny is smarter than most of the people on this forum. He's co-opting the interest from ASR (and others) and turning it into business for his company.
He likes the attention and doesn't care how he's labeled because it's adding to his bottom line in any case. His reputation (or "reputation") is well enough established at this point.

With threads like this, the focus of ASR has become so diffuse that it's devolving into just another boring audio forum.

Dave.

I think you are being a bit melodramatic here friend.
I for one find the threads about Danny intetesting from time to time.
Human behavior interests me.
Yea of course, Danny gets that any press is ultimately good press. The same goes for ASR, a number of folks have found ASR due to the "drama".
In any case perhaps you could see them as a nessicary evil?
I see you complain about them the same way everytime. I really am not being a smart @ss, if they bother you intesely, maybe skip em? There are hundreds if other threads here.
Danny has a big ego AND he is a good mirror for some meaningful lessons. Plus he is such a truly mixed bag, he really is one goofy human.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

No, not melodramatic at all.
I've been watching that guy for twenty years now. My take is right on the money.

But, your opinion is appreciated.
Cheers,

Dave.

 

[RobS]

The Dynaudio S40 doesn’t use acoustically first-order slopes, just a marketing gimmick in the specification that suggests it’s a truly “special” speaker.
A first order crossover step response doesn't look like this, this is a typical 2-way, 4th order step response:
View attachment 122757
https://www.stereophile.com/content/dynaudio-special-forty-loudspeaker-measurements

Correct, there exist almost no loudspeakers with acoustical first oder slopes (as drivers have usually already their own slopes and that is positive), this was an old marketing lie or misconception from Dynaudio and other some other companies and even Dynaudio doesn't use it in the last years.

Nope. Look at the crossover, its a 1st order with impedance compensation.

The reason for the step response is they are linearizing the phase response with precision filters or they designed the woofer to match the bode plot of the filter they already designed.

Danny's measurements aren't really useful because he's not measuring the bare drivers. That 1.1khz peak is due to a standing wave which could be due to an enclosure, crossover or the woofer. My guess is Dynaudio didn't compensate for it because it would increase cost on the crossover.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

Looking at the crossover is not indicative of the acoustical slopes created.
The fellas are correct with their comments. A step response from a "true" first-order crossover would not look like that, and very few systems are actually engineered with first-order acoustic slopes. It's very challenging and usually requires a LOT of components. AND, the linear-phase result is only achievable/measurable at a single point in space.

Nice moniker BTW.

Dave.

 

[akarma]

the linear-phase result is only achievable/measurable at a single point in space.

Exactly. People forget about this simple fact often