Dynaudio creates new “Jupiter Room” for measuring loudspeakers. (see video)

[MattHooper]

All right, here’s a video for measurement geeks!

This short video details the large room Dynaudio created for measuring their speakers with a fascinating microphone array.
The Dynaudio spokesman says they can get accurate measurements from 12Hz to 96kHz.

He also talks about the role listening plays in their design and the interaction with measurements.

I figured some ASR members would find the video interesting. (Even if some might conclude
“ they should’ve just bought a Klippel”)

What do you think?

 

[Reddoc]

Thanks, MattHooper, really interesting., great-looking, comprehensive device.
Some silly points for discussion:

1. Seems weird to me to measure below the ground plane, but if you do, why is there a big plate at the base of the speaker stand?
2. Now that they have built the room, I wonder whether it could become a nice source of profit by renting it out to all of the speaker- (+/- driver-!) builders around Scandinavia?

 

[D-Livs]

This is superior to a Klippel, this is the direct result without compensating or adjusting the result

Would be an excellent tool for engineering speakers.

 

[TheBatsEar]

This is superior to a Klippel, this is the direct result without compensating or adjusting the result

Maybe. I wonder what the pros say to what solution has more potential.

I for one think either they found a fundamental flaw in the math done by the Klippel software, or do it as a pure marketing tool. After all, we will never be able to verify it's precision, we will have to take their word. And their word will be it's better than a Klippel NFS.

 

[DSJR]

The Klippel system done in a more conventional 'room' is so damned close to a proper chamber though, so facilities like the Jupiter I'd suggest, are as much a PR exercise as anything else, as it looks so impressive as did the original.

Maybe it's just me, but I'm totally underwhelmed by the sonics of most of the domestic Dynaudio models (my local dealer majors in them), the top very expensive Confidence 60's sounding cold as ice, little 'body' and actually giving me listener fatigue after half an hour or so. Their only fairly recent models I've liked were the active Focus 50, which still sounded 'cold' but with the kind of tactile clarity and insight-into-the-mix and/or-venue that mostly decent actives usually do.

 

[Grotti]

Subjective performance of actual Dynaudio speakers is underwhelming to me, especially regarding the price tags. The few models Amir and others measured can't compete with Ascilab, Genelec, Neumann and some other brands. And I doubt, that the new Jupiter room will change that. But admittedly, such a "measurement-cathedral" looks more impressive than a Klippel in a big garage ;o)

 

[DanielT]

Subjective performance of actual Dynaudio speakers is underwhelming to me, especially regarding the price tags. The few models Amir and others measured can't compete with Ascilab, Genelec, Neumann and some other brands. And I doubt, that the new Jupiter room will change that. But admittedly, such a "measurement-cathedral" looks more impressive than a Klippel in a big garage ;o)

That may be the case, or rather, that's how you experience it, as you say. But considering Dynadio's measurement capabilities, that's probably how they want their speakers to sound. I mean, they have all the possibilities in the world to measure them in every possible and precise way. They know how they objectively perform and thus sound.

Edit:
Maybe Dynaudio want to create a signature sound? Like, (right or wrong if it's possible to generalize I don't know), like Dali emphasis on bass with a slightly raised treble. Focal bright, raised treble. Maybe a myth, maybe a preconceived notion, rumor that they sound like that, maybe it was like that in the past for Dali and Focal. I don't know.

 

[Sokel]

Watching the lengths one has to go for precise overall measurements while building a speaker (cause that's what all this gear are for, including Klippel, anechoic chambers and stuff) I can only wonder about the "results" we "correct" with a 200-500 euro mic and REW , specially above 100Hz or so.

(I know, I know, they sound divine at your ears )

To the thread, don't believe it's marketing. Marketing would not allow such expense and taking the engineers out of their dungeons is not exactly what they wish for.
By the way, who's testing the tester?

 

[dfuller]

The thing with Jupiter vs a Klippel is that Jupiter effectively has no size limit for the speaker and is much faster to measure.

And yet somehow, dyns still don't sound particularly good (to me) nor measure particularly well.

 

[574stereo]

A few speaker designers I've spoken to have said the NFS isn't really a viable option for most companies due to the time it takes to do a measurement.

Build 4-5 different prototypes when you're trying to solve a certain issue in the design and within an hour you can have data on all of them with which to make a further decision.


If it takes 6 hours, and you have 5 designs to measure....

That's 3-4 working days just to gather data...

 

[DSJR]

That may be the case, or rather, that's how you experience it, as you say. But considering Dynadio's measurement capabilities, that's probably how they want their speakers to sound. I mean, they have all the possibilities in the world to measure them in every possible and precise way. They know how they objectively perform and thus sound.

Edit:
Maybe Dynaudio want to create a signature sound? Like, (right or wrong if it's possible to generalize I don't know), like Dali emphasis on bass with a slightly raised treble. Focal bright, raised treble. Maybe a myth, maybe a preconceived notion, rumor that they sound like that, maybe it was like that in the past for Dali and Focal. I don't know.

I've heard a couple from each domestic 'range' and the balance does change it seems from one 'range' to another, the sound seeming to get more presense and top as you go from £/$200pr to £/$ 50k approx. Can't say the audiophile term 'resolution' gets any better though, just the cost and perceived 'detail' due to tonal balance tweaks. No doubt at all it's known and intentional, to justify the high prices they charge. I've not heard the active pro models, but I gather the latest BM5A III is a great tech improvement on the early ones the BBC bought into to replace their home-grown models.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Amazing. My favorite part is that porthole.

 

[Somafunk]

Klippel”)

What do you think?

I posted a similar introduction to Jupiter video 4years ago when I bought my LYD 48’s, quite an impressive room and bit of equipment.

 

[DVDdoug]

I appreciate that they are putting so much effort and expense into testing! I get the impression that most manufacturers don't go to that much trouble

But I wonder how their measurements correlate with Klippel or anechoic measurements? They are kind-of useless if they aren't comparable. And I assume they don't allow competitors to use their setup.

And, it seems like it's only for internal-engineering use. Quickly looking at their website, I think they are keeping most of the measurements and graphs secret.

 

[MattHooper]

I appreciate that they are putting so much effort and expense into testing! I get the impression that most manufacturers don't go to that much trouble

But I wonder how their measurements correlate with Klippel or anechoic measurements? They are kind-of useless if they aren't comparable. And I assume they don't allow competitors to use their setup.

And, it seems like it's only for internal-engineering use. Quickly looking at their website, I think they are keeping most of the measurements and graphs secret.

Here are some Stereophile measurements of relatively recent Dynaudio speakers:

Dynaudio Confidence 30 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Dynaudio Confidence 30's frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 mike for the nearfield responses. I measured the speaker's impedance with Dayton Audio's DATS v2 system.

www.stereophile.com

Dynaudio Contour 20 loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system and a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone to measure the Dynaudio Contour 20's frequency response in the farfield, and an Earthworks QTC-40 for the nearfield responses. I estimated the Dynaudio's voltage sensitivity as 84.2dB(B)/2.83V/m, which is...

www.stereophile.com

Dynaudio Contour 30i loudspeaker Measurements | Stereophile.com

Sidebar 3: Measurements I measured a Dynaudio Contour 30i loudspeaker with serial number 10154186. I used DRA Labs' MLSSA system, a calibrated DPA 4006 microphone, and an Earthworks microphone preamplifier to measure the quasi-anechoic frequency- and time-domain behavior in the farfield. I used...

www.stereophile.com

 

[Salt]

The confidence 30 (without i) has a bunch of resonances, the 20 and 30i look very clean, so progress was made.
What is not clear to me: is that boom-bass effect (still) a problem made by stereophile's measurements or do the speakers really sound like this?

 

[Nopiano]

The confidence 30 (without i) has a bunch of resonances, the 20 and 30i look very clean, so progress was made.
What is not clear to me: is that boom-bass effect (still) a problem made by stereophile's measurements or do the speakers really sound like this?

It’s his room!

 

[Matt_Holland]

A few speaker designers I've spoken to have said the NFS isn't really a viable option for most companies due to the time it takes to do a measurement.

Build 4-5 different prototypes when you're trying to solve a certain issue in the design and within an hour you can have data on all of them with which to make a further decision.


If it takes 6 hours, and you have 5 designs to measure....

That's 3-4 working days just to gather data...

This is an important consideration I agree. Although I would argue that a full “spin” is probably not necessary for much of the iterative design work.

Perhaps the best of both worlds would be a Klippel system with a fixed multi-mic array and a platform that rotates the speaker in one fixed plane.

And for those with a NFS I wonder if there is an option to perform a lower spatial resolution and angle limited measurement set that is achievable in minutes in order to speed up the iterative design process?

 

[TimVG]

Although I would argue that a full “spin” is probably not necessary for much of the iterative design work.

On the contrary. Full 360° horizontal and vertical measurements of the seperate drivers in the assembled cabinet and the rest can be done from behind a computer before assembling even a basic crossover. Also, especially for companies with qualified people on board, pretty much the entire radiation characteristics of loudspeakers can be simulated in software without having to build anything..

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

This is superior to a Klippel, this is the direct result without compensating or adjusting the result

Obviously, new Jupiter system is much faster then Klippel. And much, much pricier. And less accurate at the lowest frequencies.
But what are you meaning with "adjusting the result" for the Klippel? Are you implying that Klippel somehow is faking the measurements?