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Dynamic Range

olds1959special

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What can be done to bring back dynamic range in recordings? I mean, how can we convince the world to go back to the old ways? It's confusing why mainstream recordings have leaned towards very compressed sounds. Older recordings and a lot of classical music has more dynamic range and I prefer this.
 
What can be done to bring back dynamic range in recordings?
The solution is easy in theory:

Make R 128 volume normalization compulsory across the industry and pushing a track's average volume up by compressing peaks will no longer be a thing.

That would remove the louder=more popular incentive and dynamic range would become purely an artistic choice.
 
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What can be done to bring back dynamic range in recordings? I mean, how can we convince the world to go back to the old ways? It's confusing why mainstream recordings have leaned towards very compressed sounds. Older recordings and a lot of classical music has more dynamic range and I prefer this.
Technically that's easy: the opposite to a compressor is an expander. It expands dynamic range instead of reducing it. Use one in your signal chain. I'd it's a digital one, you can even save presets for different styles and albums and stuff. :D
 
I think olds1959special want to tackle the commercial aspect, not the technical one.

The question he asked is, as I understand it, how to convince music producers to release music recording whose dynamic is not excessively compressed.

I am afraid there is no answer to this question other than refusing to buy excessively compressed music releases.
 
Technically that's easy: the opposite to a compressor is an expander. It expands dynamic range instead of reducing it. Use one in your signal chain. I'd it's a digital one, you can even save presets for different styles and albums and stuff. :D
Unless you use the same attack decay times as was used when mastering youll usually end up with weird dynamics. And if the original was compressed more than once (like during mixing, quite probable) its almost impossible to expand it back properly.
 
What can be done to bring back dynamic range in recordings?

See: DIY Dynamic Decompression of Music Tracks

I'm listening to my music tracks with FabFilter Pro-Q4 on foobar2000 as I type this. It's amazing.

However, if all the dynamics have been squeezed too much (e.g., crest factor <6 dB), there's not a lot to be done to recover a reasonable amount of dynamics.

Here's a screenshot from foobar2000 with Pro-Q4 running:

1776373610588.png


Chris
 
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The solution is easy in theory:

Make R 128 volume normalization compulsory across the industry and pushing a track's average volume up by compressing peaks will no longer be a thing.

That would remove the louder=more popular incentive and dynamic range would become purely an artistic choice.
If theres money at stake producers will find a way around it.
 
What can be done to bring back dynamic range in recordings? I mean, how can we convince the world to go back to the old ways?
What the streaming platforms have already done. If the loudness of the recording (EBU R 128 dB LUFS measured over the entire track) is greater than their platform-wide max, e.g. -14 dB LUFS, then apply negative gain in the amount of the difference. The result makes the recordings that are pushed through brick-wall limiters to high levels sound quiet relative to tracks that retain their dynamics.
 
Make R 128 volume normalization compulsory across the industry and pushing a track's average volume up by compressing peaks will no longer be a thing.
Yes, but note that R128 is a loudness scale--not really a dynamics scale. I will immediately acknowledge that the reason why dynamics are disappearing from produced music tracks is because the record company A&R executives think that "louder = better", so if you stop them making everything louder, then the dynamics won't suffer as a consequence. But note that R128 measures average loudness, while crest factor measures dynamic range (like the DR Database is showing). Those are actually two different things.

Broadcast radio and music players (like the iPod) long ago switched to R128-type of loudness compensation to pull down tracks that are too loud. So the continued drive to make everything louder is really insane nowadays. It just goes to show how strong the organizational cultures are at the record companies--not to change anything.

JMTC.

Chris
 
What the streaming platforms have already done. If the loudness of the recording (EBU R 128 dB LUFS measured over the entire track) is greater than their platform-wide max, e.g. -14 dB LUFS, then apply negative gain in the amount of the difference. The result makes the recordings that are pushed through brick-wall limiters to high levels sound quiet relative to tracks that retain their dynamics.
If it worked properly. Dont know about other streaming services but Spotify gives you the option to normalize volume (make all songs the same loudness). If people dot use nothing will change.
With normalize off I turn some songs up, others down. With it on I turn some songs up and some songs down, oppositely. Not really normalized. If I like 90s pop etc. my favorite music will not be as loud with normalize on so why use it?
 
the reason why dynamics are disappearing from produced music tracks is because the record company A&R executives think that "louder = better"
I would change louder to more sales. Most producers can hear the difference but there getting hired and paid to increase sales. Dynamics reduction started with broadcasting over air (you could only broadcast so loud before you over modulated or destroyed a 20,000 watt tube) to very limited S/N systems. And these systems were where most people heard 98% of there new music, the car AM radio. It didnt take long for record companies to figure out that louder songs sold more and we where of to the races. They would even pay off radio DJs to turn up there songs. Heres some real old compressors.
1776379257760.png
 
One other way to short-circuit the loudness war practices would be to change the format of stored music tracks from fixed point (e.g., 16 or 24 bits) to floating point. Then the idea of "louder" will mean nothing, once the track is stored with its average loudness level stored with it. Playback systems will then pull the floating point numbers off the stored track and immediately scale them to the average for the track. Voila! Bad habit circumvented.

(This is the same type of situation that's occurring in other real-time software systems that now can handle floating point instead of just fixed point due to processor throughput performance and the price of backing store getting so inexpensive.)

This is effectively what players like foobar and the VST plugins are doing--they convert to floating point internally, so if the peak levels go above "0" dB (whatever that is), they simply keep re-calculating max output level for the track--then reducing the output gain to the DAC accordingly.

Chris
 
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One other way to short-circuit the loudness war practices would be to change the format of stored music tracks from fixed point (e.g., 16 or 24 bits) to floating point. Then the idea of "louder" will mean nothing, once the track is stored with its average loudness level stored with it. Playback systems will then pull the floating point numbers off the stored track and immediately scale them to the average for the track. Voila! Bad habit circumvented.

(This is the same type of situation that's occurring in other real-time software systems that now can handle floating point instead of just fixed point due to processor throughput performance and the price of backing store getting so inexpensive.)

This is effectively what players like foobar and the VST plugins are doing--they convert to floating point internally, so if the peak levels go above "0" dB (whatever that is), they simply keep re-calculating max output level for the track--then reducing the output gain to the DAC accordingly.

Chris
Interesting. It has indeed gotten cheap enough to be used in inexpensive mixers/recorders such as the Zoom Livetrak L6 that records in 32bit float, and is indeed very convenient for the purpose - you can largely ignore input gain settings, within reason ofc. Or rather: not care about input levels. There is no gain setting in the traditional sense. Weird but practical!
 
What can be done to bring back dynamic range in recordings? I mean, how can we convince the world to go back to the old ways? It's confusing why mainstream recordings have leaned towards very compressed sounds. Older recordings and a lot of classical music has more dynamic range and I prefer this.
Buy music on SACD when you can, hope others do the same, hope the industry asks “Why are SACD sales increasing, and hope they answer that question with the dynamics answer. It’s a long shot, but money talks. I have just recently dipped my toes in the the SACD market, and have been very happy with what I hear.
 
Ha, I compress movie audio so I can hear the dialogue over room noise without blasting my head off. I think in most listening conditions ie mobile compressed just works better
 
Buy music on SACD when you can, hope others do the same, hope the industry asks “Why are SACD sales increasing, and hope they answer that question with the dynamics answer. It’s a long shot, but money talks. I have just recently dipped my toes in the the SACD market, and have been very happy with what I hear.
Only value I find in SACD is possibly a better end product in terms of mixing/mastering, but mostly just for multich options vs 2ch generally.
 
There is no lossless technical solution to "reverse" compression once the music is mastered and released. The market demands compressed music because most of it is listened to in loud environments or in cars. In these situations compression works well. The number of people that listen to music in a quiet environment is very small so the only music currently mastered dynamically is classical, jazz, or similar. The only "solution" is to either switch to types of music still mastered dynamically or buy older popular recordings on original CD's. A lot of popular music from the 1960's through the 1980's was originally mastered with a lot of dynamics and these masterings are found on the original CD releases made during the 1980's, these CD's are readily available and dirt cheap. Unfortunately starting in the 1990's most of these older recordings were "remastered" with a lot of added compression and these later versions are generally what is on the streaming services. There does appear to some hope though as some of the "remastered/ remixed for ATMOS" music has the dynamics restored to their original levels and the number of these is growing every day.
 
The number of people that listen to music in a quiet environment is very small so the only music currently mastered dynamically is classical, jazz, or similar.
This is clearly a case of "one size fits all" thinking. It's a bit tiresome to have to keep pointing this out.

Most music is no longer distributed via physical media, so it is trivial to provide lower fidelity music only to those that prefer lower fidelity (i.e., lower dynamic range than the original recorded track in this particular case) from online servers. And the more processing used to produce a track, the more one can justify charging the customer (and not the other way around--as it seems to be with "audiophile recording" quality today trying to charge more for less work).

Additionally, since local processing has gotten much less expensive than in 1983 (when the compact disc format was originally released), it seems that if one is going to lower the dynamic range of the music, it's much better to do it at playback time under control of the user, not the "mastering guy". I think it's a lot better to let the user have control over how much compression is applied.

JMTC.

Chris
 
This is clearly a case of "one size fits all" thinking. It's a bit tiresome to have to keep pointing this out.

Most music is no longer distributed via physical media, so it is trivial to provide lower fidelity music only to those that prefer lower fidelity (i.e., lower dynamic range than the original recorded track in this particular case) from online servers. And the more processing used to produce a track, the more one can justify charging the customer (and not the other way around--as it seems to be with "audiophile recording" quality today trying to charge more for less work).

Additionally, since local processing has gotten much less expensive than in 1983 (when the compact disc format was originally released), it seems that if one is going to lower the dynamic range of the music, it's much better to do it at playback time under control of the user, not the "mastering guy". I think it's a lot better to let the user have control over how much compression is applied.

JMTC.

Chris
I think the music industry is starting to come around on this with the ATMOS releases, not "user controlled" (which I don't think will ever happen) but at least they are willing to release 2 versions with ATMOS being aimed at the "listen at home in a quiet environment" crowd.
 
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