• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Dynamic range, loudness war, remasters.

Frgirard

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 2, 2021
Messages
935
Likes
537

Offler

Active Member
Joined
May 27, 2021
Messages
194
Likes
156
Excuse my ignorance... What is "re-recording" and how can I know if a remaster includes this or not?

By the way, I have Mike Oldfield Five Miles Out with average DR=13 and it really lacks punch and bass. You have to really turn up the volume to enjoy it. There is no bass. I guess "Five Miles Out" song was intended to be punchy but the CD does not convey that...

Thanks
If the song is recorded and mastered with purpose on being printed as vinyl or as a CD you should take different path in the whole process.

Many remasters simply takes old studio recording at changes it with different volume levels for various instruments.

In some cases the band reunites in studio again, they play all the songs once again and the result is superior to original album. Sometimes its just because it was recorded digitally for a specific format, also that sound-mastering tools are more advanced that in time of original record.
 

dasdoing

Major Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
1,694
Likes
859
Location
Salvador-Bahia-Brasil
You refer to simple masking, which does happen. But you're missing my point, which is about psychoacoustics, human perception of loudness/dynamics. Our full perception of dynamics is much wider than the dynamic range we can perceive in any given short window of time.

For example, read section 2.1.b here: http://www.gedlee.com/downloads/HT/Chapter 2.pdf

Tightening those muscles changes the response of the middle ear bones, reducing the amplitude of loud sounds, which extends the total range of dynamics/loudness we can perceive. However, when they're tightened we can't hear the very soft sounds that we can hear when those muscles relax.

makes total sense. like when you switch off lights you see nothing, and after a minute or two you are able to see better in the dark.
but I fail to see the relevance for dynamic range in music
 

MRC01

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
2,134
Likes
2,248
Location
Pacific Northwest
makes total sense. like when you switch off lights you see nothing, and after a minute or two you are able to see better in the dark.
but I fail to see the relevance for dynamic range in music
Good analogy, because our eyes use at least 2 mechanisms to control dynamic range. The pupil can dilate & contract for immediate / short-term brightness or dynamic range perception. Yet also, in addition to this, the rods also adapt to night vision, increasing the ability to perceive very dim objects. But this takes 30-45 minutes. So the dynamic range of our eyesight (max difference between dim & bright) is much wider than we can perceive in any short term time window. We have a range of, say X, in the short term, due to pupil dilation. Yet the full range is much wider than X, if you give the eye enough time to adapt.

The same applies our hearing. The relevance for dynamic range is that if you take a test like the one posted above, it uses 1-2 second duration differences which is short-term only. So the result underestimates the full dynamic range of our hearing, as it doesn't accommodate our long-term adaption to ambient noise level.
 

Wes

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
3,851
Likes
3,561
I'm cool with an auditory threshold of about 20 uPa for humans.

Depends on how you test and of course freq.
 

Wes

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 5, 2019
Messages
3,851
Likes
3,561
the reason you hear very quiet sounds in very quiet ambients is that they are very quiet ambients. in a normal living room, even living in a quiet place you will always have a noisefloor


IIRC deep caves have been used. Of course, you still have various molecules bumping into your ear drum, not to mention all the damn neutrinos...
 

dasdoing

Major Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
1,694
Likes
859
Location
Salvador-Bahia-Brasil
today I am listening to 70ies funk. I love 70ies funk. but I must say that 70ies dynamics get anoying pretty fast, especialy the mid transients.
give you a good example, cause this is an exepctional and in my opinion timeless production; but when you hear it loud the transients hurt your ears:

imo compression, when used musicly, only makes things better. we must understand that in real life we don't hear stuff as close as the mics are. compression when used wisely makes things more natural
 

dasdoing

Major Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
1,694
Likes
859
Location
Salvador-Bahia-Brasil
if you want to analyse good and bad dynamics you need to limit the range imo. you shouldn't analyse the transients. good remasters will sound better even having less dynamic range, cause they took away only the bad transients
 

levimax

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
1,076
Likes
1,511
Location
San Diego
now here a 70ies song without hurting mids. I bet it has less dynamic range than the others (sure, I might tbe wrong)

I am not familiar with these albums so don't have them in either LP or CD but I will grant you that these YouTube videos are fatiguing to listen to loud. Do you have the original LP's and if so do they sound like these YouTube videos?
 

dasdoing

Major Contributor
Joined
May 20, 2020
Messages
1,694
Likes
859
Location
Salvador-Bahia-Brasil
I am not familiar with these albums so don't have them in either LP or CD but I will grant you that these YouTube videos are fatiguing to listen to loud. Do you have the original LP's and if so do they sound like these YouTube videos?

I doubt you can abx OPUS at 160kbps (VBR)
 
Top Bottom