Dynamic range, loudness war, remasters.

[MRC01]

Do we have any advice on what to look for when buying?
1. Shall we just buy very old cds from the time that loudness war was not an issue?

This works, if you can find the right year. Discogs and the Dynamic range DB that @gsp1971 links are helpful.

2. How do we buy a new cd these days ?

The usual sources: eBay, Amazon, etc. Or buy a download and burn it to CD yourself.

3. What about streaming as well . Is this also suffering from loudness war?

Yes it is. Streaming sometimes has multiple versions of an album, but the selection is usually very limited, and usually only the latest mega-squashed version. Their catalog may be vast, but you rarely get to pick a release or version of a recording.

 

[j_j]

Do we have any advice on what to look for when buying?
1. Shall we just buy very old cds from the time that loudness war was not an issue?
2. How do we buy a new cd these days ?
3. What about streaming as well . Is this also suffering from loudness war?

1) Have to listen, mostly.
2) That might work, but then you may get poorly anti-aliased, poorly sampled, undithered content, too.
3) Good question. Most of the new stuff I'd like to buy is not even available on CD.
4) Yeah, the CD goes ot the streaming input, so it's quashed. It may be "level regulated" but the overall content is stills quashed to <redacted>.

 

[alaios]

Album list - Dynamic Range DB

thanks,
how shall I read the below?

how this can help me with an album purchase? Do I also see as these albums of "good" DR-wise quality?

 

[Anonamemouse]

thanks,
how shall I read the below?
View attachment 340909how this can help me with an album purchase? Do I also see as these albums of "good" DR-wise quality?

As you can see the DR is in the green for all of these recordings. It's no guarantee for excellent sound quality, but it is a guidline that at least dynamics are mostly there.
But... If a remaster added some bass, the DR goes down, even though the rest of the spectrum remains exactly the same. This is one of the flaws of the DR measurement. A LUFS rating would be much better, but unfortunately there is no database for LUFS measurements, nor is there a way to measure them yourself without spending quite some money on software.
In general, try to find the album you want to have in the best quality at www.stevehoffman.tv and see what the general consensus is on a best version.

 

[MRC01]

thanks,
how shall I read the below?
...
how this can help me with an album purchase? Do I also see as these albums of "good" DR-wise quality?

Those albums are classical music, which is outside the blast radius of the loudness wars and hardly ever squashed. Dynamic range won't be a problem. If you listen to classical, don't even bother looking it up because while the recording quality does vary, it is consistently engineered to a much higher standard and is generally excellent.

For a better example, look up rock/pop music like "Hotel California". You'll see the early CD has a DR of 14 while the recent "high-def" remaster has a paltry 9. That's a big audible difference. Most modern rock/pop is even more heavily squashed than that.

 

[czt]

nor is there a way to measure them yourself without spending quite some money on software

There is: http://pbelkner.de/projects/web/bs1770gain/#usage

 

[gsp1971]

thanks,
how shall I read the below?
View attachment 340909how this can help me with an album purchase? Do I also see as these albums of "good" DR-wise quality?

Column DR = The average Dynamic Range of the entire album
Column min DR = the minimum DR of the album
Column max DR = the maximum DR of the album

The higher the DR, the less compression there is. As a starting point, you would want your selected albums to be in the range DR >=11.

Now that's easy to achieve with classical music and jazz / vocals. Both of these genres of music usually have good DR. If you like rock music, it is not easy to find DR of, say 14, so a DR of 10-12 would be acceptable. If you like hip hop, which is heavily compressed anyway, finding something with DR 08-11 you'd be lucky.

For example, look at the album below, Eagles - Their Greatest Hits.

The 1986 and 1987 Asylum Records CD releases have a DR of 12, which is pretty good for rock.
The 1990 re-release by Asylum Records , drops to DR 11. So does the 1993 DCC Compact Classics re-master.

This is just an example to show how you can select the best DR version of the albums you seek.

Of course, it's more complicated than that, and the DR measurement has its limitations, but it's a good starting point for you to at least AVOID over-compressed albums with a DR of <=8.

Hope this helps to get you started.

GS

 

[Thomas Lund]

A real big problem has developed in music distribution: We simply no longer know what we are listening to. Streaming services generally carry just the latest version (read: worst) of a track, and some squash it even further. Just to be sure it is dead, I presume

Apple Music Store (AMS) sometimes have more versions, but you can't tell which may be good before buying. At the last AES convention, I played two versions of Toto's Africa from AMS, see attached. HDMI audio in the conference room was unreliable, so I used MacBook speakers from the podium. The first 8-10 rows could easily tell a difference, and everybody preferred the low level (older) version. Enable Loudness normalization in MusicTester as shown when comparing.

It is a good idea to cling on to old vinyls and CDs. No bad surprises from re-releases or lossy data reduction.

 

[gsp1971]

It is a good idea to cling on to old vinyls and CDs. No bad surprises from re-releases or lossy data reduction.

Agreed. CD releases from the 1980s and early 1990s are generally less compressed than their most recent counterparts.

Although I would argue that some MoFi and Analogue Productions re-masters from acclaimed mastering engineers are indeed good, and at times better than the original 1980s CD release.

GS

 

[aagstn]

Do we have any advice on what to look for when buying?
1. Shall we just buy very old cds from the time that loudness war was not an issue?
2. How do we buy a new cd these days ?
3. What about streaming as well . Is this also suffering from loudness war?

I prefer more dynamic CDs though it isn't always a given the old version will sound better to everyone.

When I buy CDs for classic albums I buy the 80's and early 90's versions. I avoid remasters in general but I'm sure there are cases where they can be better.

The way I do it is by either buying at a local store where I can make sure it is a non remastered version. Typically if it is a simple silver front CD it is a classic. You can also check the dates on the package for 90's and 2000 dates or if it says remastered. Another source is Decluttr. They sell used CDs and list the release date. If it has a date past 1993 I will check the loudness wars database before buying. If it says 1990 it is going to be that or earlier and be safe to buy.

Modern music is the tough one. A recent example is Black Pumas. Their debut CD sounded fantastic. I picked up their second CD and it was compressed and loud. No idea why they would master the second album so different from the first. My solution was to buy the second album on vinyl, but vinyl has its own issues and isn't a solution for everyone.

I will say there are good modern CDs out there. I picked up a few Mofi and Analogue Productions SACDs for bands like Alan Parsons Project, The Cars, CCR, etc. and found they sounded really good. However, I didn't find them to be that much better than an original 80's CD and certainly not worth the $30 price tag when I paid $2 at Goodwill for the same Cars album.