Dynaco PAS..Comments please...

[RoyB]

I'm looking for a tube preamplifier to go with my Dynaco clone VTA St120 amplifier.
Currently using a Schiit Saga but it simple has no gain and does not play the ST120 to the levels I want.
I'm looking at the vatious "Tubes4HiFi" preamplifiers and the other China preamps available.
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/pre11.htm#SP12http://www.tubes4hifi.com/pre11.htm#SP12

A very nice Dynaco PAS popped up on US Audio Mart this morning......
Here is what the seller is saying about it:
"This Dynaco Pas tube Preamplifier has just been fully restored to better than new and up-graded. The unit is fully tested and waiting to be enjoyed. Experience the warmth that only tube audio can bring. A new modern black faceplate has been installed and the cover has been painted black. See photos. A brand NEW power supply section (except for transformer) has been installed that eliminates the use of the 60 year old "can" capacitor, heater capacitors and unreliable selenium rectifier. The rectifier tube has been retained. All NEW audio grade polypropylene capacitors have been installed throughout. All controls have been cleaned. All wiring has been carefully routed and grounded for quietest operation. Four NEW JJ 12AX7 tubes are included as well as tested vintage RCA 12X4 rectifier tube.
Brand new modern black faceplate and knobs
New power supply
New polypropylene capacitors
Gold RCA jacks
New JJ 12AX7 Tubes
Two Phono inputs
New power cord
Fully tested

He is asking $695

It is within driving distance to pick it up, so no shipping.....

What say the board.......Rebuilt vintage or go China new?

 

[JeffS7444]

Yikes, no. Back in the day I was paying closer to $150 for very clean, stock examples, with my last one being in the mid or late 1990s. There's nothing particularly tube-y about the sonics of the things. I think someone sank too much money into that Audiomart PAS, and now they want to get some of it back.

Though not tube, this ought to be way better:
https://www.akitika.com/PR102.html

 

[RoyB]

i love the PR102....great value!..... at some point i might try one for another room system......but for this system, i want tubes....just because...

 

[DHT 845]

I'm looking for a tube preamplifier to go with my Dynaco clone VTA St120 amplifier.
Currently using a Schiit Saga but it simple has no gain and does not play the ST120 to the levels I want.
I'm looking at the vatious "Tubes4HiFi" preamplifiers and the other China preamps available.
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/pre11.htm#SP12http://www.tubes4hifi.com/pre11.htm#SP12
What say the board.......Rebuilt vintage or go China new?

From tube I would go for Jadis JP200 clone with NOS tubes...

 

[RoyB]

Jadis JP200....Just a little above my pay grade...... Looking to spend <$750....

 

[RoyB]

Oh, wait a minute....I missed the word "CLONE".....so the Chinese version, based on France JP200 is around $400 delivered?

 

[DHT 845]

Oh, wait a minute....I missed the word "CLONE".....so the Chinese version, based on France JP200 is around $400 delivered?

sth like that, unless you find version with remote slightly more expensive (lite audio LS9) but not sure if still available...

 

[Speedskater]

Is it a Dynaco PAS, PAS2 or PAS3 ?
Which unit had the wrong capacitor value?

 

[RoyB]

I do not know....When he got back to me it was sold...

 

[JeffS7444]

I'm looking for a tube preamplifier to go with my Dynaco clone VTA St120 amplifier.
Currently using a Schiit Saga but it simple has no gain and does not play the ST120 to the levels I want.
I'm looking at the vatious "Tubes4HiFi" preamplifiers and the other China preamps available.
http://www.tubes4hifi.com/pre11.htm#SP12http://www.tubes4hifi.com/pre11.htm#SP12

Unless you are into DIY projects, I expect those Tubes4hifi offerings would work alright. Van Alstine is probably more than you want to spend, modern Dyna PAS seems to be unavailable 'till further notice, and McIntosh will be priced like McIntosh.

If you are okay with DIY, it appears that cosmetically good, as-is PAS 3 preamps can still be had in the $350 range from that auction site. I'd probably mostly tidy it up, rebuild around new capacitors and eliminate the selenium rectifier. Provided that they are clean and making good connection, stock RCA jacks are alright: Not designed to handle heavy audiophile-type cables, but we don't need to concern ourselves with that silliness!

 

[Jim Matthews]

Does Schiit offer a trade "up" policy?

The Freya has 12 dB of gain.

If Bob Latino recommends something on his Tubes 4hifi page, it's likely passed his inspection standards. He's genuinely supportive of his products.

If it was my money (and it isn't) I would suggest you consider the excellent RME ADI-2 DAC. It's dead quiet, and if you dial in the latency settings very similar in presentation to the best tube preamp I ever owned - without the microphonics, thermal noise or high noise floor.

 

[RoyB]

The RME is fantastic. But much more "stuff" than I want. At this point in my audio live I'm going for minimalist.....Bluesound Node2i, preamp, VTA ST120, Magnapan MMG....done!

 

[SIY]

Oh, wait a minute....I missed the word "CLONE".....so the Chinese version, based on France JP200 is around $400 delivered?

If they're happy to steal a trademark, you can't trust that they've done anything else right, either. And the Jadis is a shit design to begin with, both for performance and reliability. Stay away.

PAS-3 excelled in bringing lowest cost to market, while having performance be merely mediocre. Mediocre becomes awful if you try driving a load lower than 500k or so, or care about the high input capacitance for MM.

If you want inexpensive, avoid tubes. One can make excellent tube preamps and amps, but not for three digit prices.

 

[RoyB]

If they're happy to steal a trademark, you can't trust that they've done anything else right, either. And the Jadis is a shit design to begin with, both for performance and reliability. Stay away.

PAS-3 excelled in bringing lowest cost to market, while having performance be merely mediocre. Mediocre becomes awful if you try driving a load lower than 500k or so, or care about the high input capacitance for MM.

If you want inexpensive, avoid tubes. One can make excellent tube preamps and amps, but not for three digit prices.

Interesting take on this discussion.....Thanks

 

[gene_stl]

RoyB you are trying so hard to make a big money wasting mistake. I was about to post about the impedance mismatch but SIY beat me to it. A tube preamp can only drive a tube power amp properly. (unless it's a hybrid.) I am old enough to have built and serviced LOTs of tube gear mostly Dynaco. You really don't want to do this.

 

[SIY]

RoyB you are trying so hard to make a big money wasting mistake. I was about to post about the impedance mismatch but SIY beat me to it. A tube preamp can only drive a tube power amp properly. (unless it's a hybrid.) I am old enough to have built and serviced LOTs of tube gear mostly Dynaco. You really don't want to do this.

An elegant way of putting it.

There aren't many things I know much about, but tubes and tube designs are one of them. I would never recommend tubes in 2021 to anyone who can't design, build, and service their own unless they want to drop a pile of money.

 

[DHT 845]

RoyB wants a tube pre for TUBE amp, whats your problem guys? You try to discourage man to tube gear. Tube designes are old and almost everything today made is "stolen" from the past. $500 for tube pre is not pile of money. Everyone knows that tube gear measures like shit and it does not even touch modern op-amps levels of distortion.

RoyB As far as todays designs L2 from Audio Note kits is very nice sounding but it is $1750. You can have easily 2 Kondo KSL-M7 clones for that (with quality parts and tubes) and such clone sounds fantastic in tube terms. JP200 is fatter, bigger sounding, M7 is more delicate sounding,

 

[DHT 845]

pile of money:

https://pl.aliexpress.com/af/JP200....a2g0o.productlist.0.0.5c822af3Sbv0vz&catId=44

 

[JeffGB]

Seems very expensive for what it is. Essentially, it is an early two stage 12ax7 amplifier for both low level and high level stages. It was ok, but it really needed a buffer after the second 12ax7. That preamp was the Audio Research SP3. It added a direct coupled cathode follower to both low and high level stages. Audio Research also added a better power supply, better capacitors and a lovely chassis. They started pushing the tubes to ever higher voltage, which created some reliability problems. It progressed through sp6a etc and was considered one of the best.

The PAS3 used a tube rectifier, which is good from a reliability viewpoint, Most people modified it with solid state diodes, which turned on quickly, before the 12ax7's warmed up and started to draw current. This caused a spike in voltage on turn on, which destroyed capacitors etc (the voltage on turn on could be a hundred or more volts higher than the circuit rating). This is something to watch out for. A stock one may be quite reliable, but many modified ones are much less reliable. It is a classic circuit and will provide a tube sound for you, which can be very enjoyable.

 

[RoyB]

Some products measure well, sound bad. I just returned the highly regarded Topping DX7 Pro as it sounded terribly brittle with my VTA ST120 ( that I built) and Magnapan MMGs. My $109 DOUK P1 sounded much better as did the Schiit Saga.....to my ears, After near 50 years of selling and installing this stuff, tubes just "sound" better. Maybe not to everyone, but to my ears, no competition.