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Dutch & Dutch 8Cs

oivavoi

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Still waiting! If I'm lucky they might get delivered late this week. But probably the week after that. I will install them in an attic at my parents house, where me and the girlfriend will live for a couple of months, before moving to our new house in Oslo in mid-june. I might ask you for some advice on how you dialled in the bass using their EQ, @soundArgument .
 

fredoamigo

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Hello everyone.......the 8c manual is really short if that's only what I saw on the dutch & dutch website....

in case of connection of the sub...how is the bass management managed? It's the 8-C soft ? I can't figure out how he can do it without a mic ?

it's been a long time since I was curious and charmed, intrigued by a pair of speakers ..;)
 
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oivavoi

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I agree that Dutch & Dutch have not given their highest priority to providing full and complete documentation in their manual or on the website.

I'm wondering, for example: Where is the app? Tried to find it on the iOS app store, but couldn't find anything...

As for bass management, @fredoamigo, it would not be possible to do that without some kind of calibration mic. Otherwise there's no way to know for the equalizer how the bass response is in your room. And bass is heavily room dependent. As far as I can understand, bass management is not automatic here. Which means that one must do measurements, and see how the bass response is in the room. Then the equalizer can be used to turn down the peaks for example. One may also use the subwoofer output to connect an extra subwoofer. Given that there's only one sub output, the best option might be to use a kind of "source-sink" approach, where a subwoofer on the opposite wall plays in opposite polarity, and cancels out disturbing modes. There's not too much information on this approach on the net, but it has gotten good results in a couple of scientific studies.

This is all that is stated in the manual on the sub output: "Various filtering and equalization options such as high– and low pass filters, peak filters, delays and phase inversion can be applied to this output".

It would be great if Dutch & Dutch created more or less automatic ways of doing those kind of things. Ideally I would like to feed my measurements into the app, and that the D&D software would then propose an automatic equalization (or a source sink setting for the subwoofer).

Will receive mine later this week, getting excited!
 
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D

Dialectic

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Still waiting! If I'm lucky they might get delivered late this week. But probably the week after that. I will install them in an attic at my parents house, where me and the girlfriend will live for a couple of months, before moving to our new house in Oslo in mid-june. I might ask you for some advice on how you dialled in the bass using their EQ, @soundArgument .

I'm no expert, but I just used the boundary adjustments in the app first and then REW, on the assumption that the Schroeder frequency in my room is 200 Hz. I dialed in numerous sub-200 Hz filters and re-measured, observing substantial improvement.
 

Purité Audio

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I agree that Dutch & Dutch have not given their highest priority to providing full and complete documentation in their manual or on the website.

I'm wondering, for example: Where is the app? Tried to find it on the iOS app store, but couldn't find anything...

As for bass management, @fredoamigo, it would not be possible to do that without some kind of calibration mic. Otherwise there's no way to know for the equalizer how the bass response is in your room. And bass is heavily room dependent. As far as I can understand, bass management is not automatic here. Which means that one must do measurements, and see how the bass response is in the room. Then the equalizer can be used to turn down the peaks for example. One may also use the subwoofer output to connect an extra subwoofer. Given that there's only one sub output, the best option might be to use a kind of "source-sink" approach, where a subwoofer on the opposite wall plays in opposite polarity, and cancels out disturbing modes. There's not too much information on this approach on the net, but it has gotten good results in a couple of scientific studies.

This is all that is stated in the manual on the sub output: "Various filtering and equalization options such as high– and low pass filters, peak filters, delays and phase inversion can be applied to this output".

It would be great if Dutch & Dutch created more or less automatic ways of doing those kind of things. Ideally I would like to feed my measurements into the app, and that the D&D software would then propose an automatic equalization (or a source sink setting for the subwoofer).

Will receive mine later this week, getting excited!
Just received our Dutch&Dutch order so hopefully very soon.
BW Keith
 

Purité Audio

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Purité Audio

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Yes you have to have a pair of 8Cs connected to see the app although it isn’t that exciting!
Keith
 

fredoamigo

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Will receive mine later this week, getting excited!
hi
oivavoi
a French owner of 8C told me that delivery times are two months minimum... you've been waiting since when?
 

oivavoi

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a French owner of 8C told me that delivery times are two months minimum... you've been waiting since when?

More or less exactly two months :) But I do believe waiting times will be shorter from now. They had some problems with delivery of the subwoofers, and also had some hiccups with the firmware, if I understood it correctly. If both of those things have been solved I would expect production to pick up speed.
 

fredoamigo

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I listened to the 8c over a 5-hour period on Monday.

it was subjectively really good yet in a room with average acoustics, it was the first active system I could enjoy with a very large sweet spot (the others all had the flaw of a very small listening site) I had brought my listening list to try to trap them but I failed .:(
everything goes very well like a letter to the post office, even the bad sound recording that I don't like with too much dynamic compression like "adèle "were very well transcribed and pleasant... all genres go very well... rock, jazz , classic, electro... even at very low volume it's very good there's sitting and detail...
I'm seduced... on the Steinway de chucho valdes it was superb!!;)

 
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oivavoi

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Finally got mine today!

First impression: these not-so-little guys are amazing. Among the best speakers I have heard, I think. Will post more impressions after perfecting the setup and eq etc.

Second thought: room acoustics still matter. I had planned to set them up in a small, small room with slanted ceilings in the attic of my parents house, until me and my better half move in to our new house later this summer. The room has some echo, and yet no nice ambiance. In that room as it now stands (fairly empty, only covered the floor with carpet), even the D&Ds sound a bit boxed in and smeared. Haven't tried any eq'ing so far though.

Tried them out in a larger furnished room downstairs (23 sqm), still no special treatment or anything. This time: Absolutely amazing. Wonderful soundstage, lots of detail, punchy and clear, and with a "rich" and non-sterile character to the sound.

So if I do want to have them in that cramped attic until we move, I will need to come up with some smart and cost-effective options for salvaging the acoustics...

More to follow.
 
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fredoamigo

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I'm so happy for you. Congratulations !!!
how's your setup? you attack the 8Cs in digital or analog?
 

oivavoi

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I'm so happy for you. Congratulations !!!
how's your setup? you attack the 8Cs in digital or analog?

Thanks mate! :)

Digital. I had planned to use Roon through a Logitech transporter (aes/ebu), but as luck would have it my mac broke down yesterday... (Roon requires a computer running as a "core"). So for now I'm just streaming from a Sonos connect, with the optical out from the Sonos transformed to aes/ebu though a small and cheap transformer box. Still sounds great.
 

fredoamigo

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I was also surprised by the size of the 8c they are really more beautiful to look at in real. on the other hand, the web application of 8Cs and almost sinister, I know that it is also intended for professionals but it could make (dutch&dutch) a small effort to add some colors and do something more ergonomic and pleasant for the eyes .
 

oivavoi

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Yes. The app could really use some work. UI, and also responsiveness. Always takes time to load. At the moment it's not smooth enough to function as the main volume control in a system for example.
 
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fredoamigo

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@oivaroi
I read today the very interesting comment from the designer ( Martijn) on gearslutz .
where i'm wondering, is that the 8C dsp works under fir, while all bass management processes work with iir? or maybe, that 8C algorithm is a mixture of fir and iir like for Dirac??



""Credit to whom credit is due - to my knowledge Todd Welti of Harman (whom I had the pleasure of meeting recently) first introduced the concept of cancelling modes with multiple subwoofers. It was a real eye-opener for me at the time and it works really well. It's not for everyone though, because it's difficult to set up and you have to be willing to place several subwoofers around the room. The performance is there though!

You can find more information here: https://www.harman.com/sites/default...multsubs_0.pdf

With the 8c the idea is that the two 8c's act as subwoofers themselves and you have to add only two more subs to effectively get a 4-sub setup. The 8c's have a subwoofer output, but right now it's not supported by the Dutch & Dutch app on lanspeaker.com. It's one of the many features on the back-log. When it's done, you will indeed be able to adjust basically any useful parameter, such as EQ's, crossover types, delay etc.""
 
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