Dutch & Dutch 8Cs

[asiano]

I'm considering switching from Revel Salon2 speakers to the 8Cs. I love the Salon2s, but in my room I don't have the ability to pull them out into the room and place them optimally without upsetting the wife.

I have one system that is used for both music and home theater. My preamp/processor is a Lyngdorf MP-60. I have some concerns about making the change:

• The 8Cs are much smaller and easier to place - that's part of the appeal. However, do they image as well as a large speaker - height, width and depth?
• What should I do for a center speaker?
• Based on my prior post and some of the comments - it seems more challenging to integrate the 8Cs into a home theater - delay, volume control, etc. Am I exaggerating this concern or are some users here using it successfully as part of their theater?
• Dutch & Dutch is a relatively new company, with a great product, but will they be around several years from now to support the product - repairs, firmware, etc? I know some people had concerns about purchasing the Kii 3s for the same reason.

I'm so close to making the change, but the aforementioned concerns are holding me back.

 

[Purité Audio]

What do you use as a centre channel 8Cs can be used as more or less conventional ( but much better sounding) actives, they have a low latency mode, but I haven’t found any lip sync issues using them with film here.
I can’t guarantee or future no more than any other company, I would say that I don’t see a future for ‘traditional’ hi-fi manufacturers who have essentially made the same design for the last 50 years.
I use an Illusonic IAP processor here for multi channel I measure send the measurements of to Christof at Illusonic and he does everything , I listen we discuss any changes which he or I implement .
Keith

 

[murl]

I would use the 8Cs internal PEQ and only correct the minimum phase portions of the FR, REW will explain how to do this, applying correction to non minimum phase can lead to unexpected results.
Keith

is there a video or instructions somewhere?

 

[Purité Audio]

I would read the whole index, only took me around three months!
https://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/help_en-GB/html/minimumphase.html#top
Generate minimum phase then look at ‘excess phase’.
Keith

 

[suttondesign]

• The 8Cs are much smaller and easier to place - that's part of the appeal. However, do they image as well as a large speaker - height, width and depth?
• Based on my prior post and some of the comments - it seems more challenging to integrate the 8Cs into a home theater - delay, volume control, etc. Am I exaggerating this concern or are some users here using it successfully as part of their theater?

I built Linkwitz Orions, which were soundstaging champions, but at the price of being way out in the room. The 8C are fine, but they are not the last word in soundstaging. The incredible smoothness of the response of the 8C, has to be heard to be believed.

I use my dealer demo 8C in a stereo music plus big-screen setup, without other channels. It presents a smooth soundstage left to right across the screen. It does not rumble in big movies, so I run a capable sub below 40hz. I can't detect the separate sub operating, so it's a nice integration. I'm currently running a Topping DX7s which has the XLR analog output plus the RCA analog output for the sub, so that's a pretty low-cost solution.

 

[mitchco]

In regards to room correction for the 8cs is it better to use the parametric EQ in lanspeaker or the use of the convolution filter in Roon? I have been getting more familiar with REW and playing around with some of the filter options. So far I uploaded a Harman house curve someone else made and exported the correction from 20-500hz to use as a convolution filter in Roon. One problem with doing that is that it is hard to play a sweep in roon to see what the actual response is after correction. It also looks like I didn't take the measurements at the same volume for R vs L.

PEQ's can only get you so far - see my article on using them here with the 8c's. Actual "room correction" will take you to the next level. I have used both Audiolense and Acourate with D&D 8c with excellent results.

The difference is that modern DSP software extracts the minimum phase response which when you eq, also eq's the phase, so you get the "ideal" speakers minimum phase response. The excess phase that is left over from your room is corrected independently. Also the analysis and correction algorithms work considerably differently then PEQ's. Both Audiolense and Acourate use a transient response analysis algorithms and not steady state response. Also these DSP software employs frequency dependent windowing so you are correcting for the loudspeaker plus room below Schroeder and just the direct sound above the rooms transition frequency if you want to want a broad band tonal correction if your room is on the live or dead side of neutral

Good luck!

 

[Strictly Stereo]

I'm considering switching from Revel Salon2 speakers to the 8Cs. I love the Salon2s, but in my room I don't have the ability to pull them out into the room and place them optimally without upsetting the wife.

I have one system that is used for both music and home theater. My preamp/processor is a Lyngdorf MP-60. I have some concerns about making the change:

• The 8Cs are much smaller and easier to place - that's part of the appeal. However, do they image as well as a large speaker - height, width and depth?
• What should I do for a center speaker?
• Based on my prior post and some of the comments - it seems more challenging to integrate the 8Cs into a home theater - delay, volume control, etc. Am I exaggerating this concern or are some users here using it successfully as part of their theater?
• Dutch & Dutch is a relatively new company, with a great product, but will they be around several years from now to support the product - repairs, firmware, etc? I know some people had concerns about purchasing the Kii 3s for the same reason.

I'm so close to making the change, but the aforementioned concerns are holding me back.

They image exceptionally well. They effectively eliminate the front wall as a first reflection point, they direct less sound at the side walls and what sound is reflected off the side walls has a tonal balance which is closer to the direct sound than conventional designs. All of this helps to improve clarity and imaging.

How about a third 8c? Or do without a dedicated centre speaker. Most AV processors can generate a phantom centre channel using the left and right speakers. This works best with speakers which image well, like the 8c.

It is easy to integrate the 8c into a home theatre system. All you need is an AV receiver or AV processor with pre-out sockets. Set the 8c's basic parameters using the web app and then run your regular home cinema calibration routine over the top.

I cannot predict the future any better than you can, but Dutch & Dutch seems to be thriving right now. They have been growing steadily for several years now. The 8c is selling as fast as Dutch & Dutch can make them. They seem like a sensible bunch and they have brought in some help for the business side of things. As long as people are buying their products I think they will continue to survive and thrive.

 

[asiano]

Do the 8Cs turn on automatically when they receive a signal or do you have to go to the app to turn them on or off?

 

[Strictly Stereo]

Do the 8Cs turn on automatically when they receive a signal or do you have to go to the app to turn them on or off?

There is a standby mode which you can control via the web app or using the input selection pushbutton on the back panel of each speaker. Alternatively, you can use the rocker switches to switch them off completely. When you switch them back on again they will pick up where you left off.

 

[BostonJack]

A nice stain and finish is all they need.

Plus a retainer for a good divorce attorney.

 

[asiano]

I have a pair of 8Cs that I'm demoing at home. I've had some issues with the volume control via lanspeaker.com. Frequently, the volume control gets stuck in a loop. In other words, if I have it set to -20 it gets stuck in a range between -20 and -18. To get it to work properly, I need to close my lanspeaker session and open a new one. My firmware version is 1.3.12.

I tried to update the firmware via lanspeaker, but it won't allow me or I'm doing something wrong.

• How do you upgrade the firmware?
• How do you setup automatic updates? the application won't allow me to enable automatic updates.
• Is setting the firmware to enable automatic updates even a good idea?
• Do I need to register the speakers to update the firmware?
• How long does it take to update?
• Can you upgrade to one of the beta versions to try Roon?

 

[Purité Audio]

Automatic firmware updating is turned off at the moment , this will be enabled soon.
To be honest I am not sure why the volume would get ‘stuck’, can you use the attenuator in playback software for the meantime?
Keith

 

[asiano]

Automatic firmware updating is turned off at the moment , this will be enabled soon.
To be honest I am not sure why the volume would get ‘stuck’, can you use the attenuator in playback software for the meantime?
Keith

I just have a DAC connected directly via the XLR inputs for now so I'm relying on the web app. If I decide to keep the 8Cs, I'll connect my Home Theater processor to the XLR inputs and permanently set the volume in the web app to 0. For music listening, I would use Roon once they enable that in the firmware.

 

[Strictly Stereo]

I have a pair of 8Cs that I'm demoing at home. I've had some issues with the volume control via lanspeaker.com.

Next time just hit refresh in your browser and everything should be fine again.

 

[asiano]

So far impressed with the 8Cs. Is anyone using a third 8C as a Center channel for home theater? If so, how is the dialogue intelligibility?

 

[Purité Audio]

I have used them in a Tri-field set up, extremely impressive rock solid imaging, as were the Kiis.
Keith

 

[mi-fu]

The only problem I have with Dutch & Dutch is that the firmware update is very, very slow.

The promised Roon support update has been talking for over a year. And there should be a test version of it floating around. But the update has never been actualized in the formal release, meaning normal users still can't be using it.

Also, the lanspeaker.com interface is extremely rudimentary - it is more like a prototype than anything.

 

[murl]

I recently moved and relocated my 8cs to the new living room. I noticed the bass response is not nearly as impressive. I finally had some free time without my kids this weekend and walked around the entire room. (Listening room is in the living area but also open to the kitchen.). The main difference is the couch is about 5 feet from the back wall and was against the back wall in the old place. I sat at the back wall and have an excellent bass response. Also the room is about twice as large as the old room. Moving the couch against the back wall isn't compatible remaining married. I can attach a photo of the room later. Any suggestions?

Of note I have been playing around with REW and seem to be getting more comfortable. I may hire Mitch after my wife gets done arranging the new place but would like to make it as optimal as possible before doing that. Wall treatments are an option, just have to make it spouse friendly.

 

[Emlin]

I recently moved and relocated my 8cs to the new living room. I noticed the bass response is not nearly as impressive. I finally had some free time without my kids this weekend and walked around the entire room. (Listening room is in the living area but also open to the kitchen.). The main difference is the couch is about 5 feet from the back wall and was against the back wall in the old place. I sat at the back wall and have an excellent bass response. Also the room is about twice as large as the old room. Moving the couch against the back wall isn't compatible remaining married. I can attach a photo of the room later. Any suggestions?

Get a mic and measure the room response. EQ from there.

 

[murl]

Keith have you heard anything about D&D making the sub output useful?