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Dutch & Dutch 8c Review

fluid

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The W371 is way out of my price range regardless! :(

Considering my problematic area is basically everything below 200Hz, I suppose the ideal setup for me would be the D&D 8c with properly set up multi-subs to get smoothness across that whole range? I can't help feeling I'd miss out on the benefits of the coaxial Ones as my position on the sofa is quite variable.

Right now, I'm crossing over a single sub at 120Hz to improve my sub-bass response (speakers can do down to 40Hz normally) but this creates a wide dip between 100-200Hz . I've identified one more possible location to test the second sub although it suffers from low WAF!
Multisubs don't help smoothness across the frequency range per se, they allow for reduced spatial variability, a smoother response over a larger area. Without EQ correct positioning or other adjustments more sources can make the situation worse not better.

Instead of buying new speakers why not start a thread, post some information and measurements and get some help to make what you already have better?
 

ferrellms

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Regarding distortion, I've done experiments on that exact thing with Kii Three and my poor man's version of BXT after I was mind-blown by BXT in demo.

It matters. It matters alot. No question about it, small speakers with limited capacity cannot compete with more capable stuff when it comes to bass quality.
Crossing my poor man's BXTs over at 200-250 hz compared to Kii alone simply changed the visceral impact of the sound, even at moderate (75-80 dB) levels.

One thing to consider when choosing to go full-range with a small stand-mount speaker like Kii or Dutch is that you'll have SBIR effects from the floor/ceiling that the cardioide won't help you with. Usually a wide-ish dip in the midbass around 100-150 hz depending on distance from the driver to the floor/ceiling.

Compensation for that will eat capacity in an area where those speakers are already struggling with the distortion (due to phase cancellation from cardioide?) and might actually end up reaching the limits before the lower end does.
I've posted these measurements so many times before that I won't spam them in here as well, but we're talking near 20 dB reduction in distortion with subs at 75-80 dB after Audiolense compensating for dips in that 150-250 hz region.

Audibility then doesn't really become a question, it's a given. The question we should be asking is if the sacrifice in distortion is worth it to achieve better directivity?

Below 300 hz I'm not sure, really. Perhaps.
I don't see any floor dips in any of the in-room measurements I've seen of any of these speakers. And you can lay acoustic absorbers on the floor...

All of this theorizing about "which is better" based on technical details is mostly hot air about things that minor EQ adjustments could alter or fix. And issues with super loud listening distortion are not of interest to most people. A couple of experts with access to each of these speakers has noted that they could probably be EQed to sound practically the same.
 

Absolute

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I don't see any floor dips in any of the in-room measurements I've seen of any of these speakers. And you can lay acoustic absorbers on the floor...

All of this theorizing about "which is better" based on technical details is mostly hot air about things that minor EQ adjustments could alter or fix. And issues with super loud listening distortion are not of interest to most people. A couple of experts with access to each of these speakers has noted that they could probably be EQed to sound practically the same.
By Odin! I am tired of providing detailed measurements with different experiments to show that there's no magic involved. Here I will provide you with impulse response of a single Kii Three with and without floor absorption so that you can see the net reduction of the reflection strength at around 2 ms.

Where there's a reflection there will be interference. Make of it what you will.
Blue is no absorption on the floor, Red is with two 4 inch RPG Absorbors on the floor.

1652209919987.jpeg


I can go further, here's a comparison of the impulse-response between Klipsch RP160M and Kii Three placed on the same stand in the same spot. Kii is taller, so floor reflection is a little later. Much difference between the strong floor reflection?

1652211087226.jpeg


And here is what happened when I placed absorption on the floor with the Klipsch;

1652211155563.jpeg



This only demonstrates that the BXT serves a purpose other than just more headroom. There's acoustic benefits of having several woofers placed at different heights. I wish somebody somewhere with access to BXT would share measurements such as these.
 

Kvalsvoll

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I can show what happens with slightly better radiation pattern. The floor reflection often show up in the frequency response causing large deviations in the 300-1K range, especially in better rooms where all other reflections are attenuated, but this does not necessarily have that much impact on sound quality.

Here, in Room2, a small room with acoustic treatment:
F205 IR Room2.png
Same speaker, a different room, ordinary living room, not treated, horrible acoustics:
F205 IR GST.png

The reflections at 1.5ms is partly from the seating, partly from a table in front of the listening position.

Same speaker, same horrible room, now at a different listening position closer to the speakers, with no table, note that the floor is hard wood, no absorption, no table or objects:
F205 IR GST2.png
 
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