Dutch & Dutch 8c Review

[hardisj]

Understood.

I think the best way to go about it would be to have a "community interest thread" or something along those lines. Have votes, discussion, etc about what people want. If a lot of folks want to see a speaker tested then you guys go about funding the purchase/acquisition and then send it to me or Amir (assuming he is interested as well).

I'd imagine that if there is a lot of community interest then I'd be interested as well. It would then just come down to timing and availability for me. I do test things outside of the community either through my own or via contact with manufacturers. Some manufacturers have reached out to me and sent me stuff to test. For example, I have the JBL HDI-3800 & HDI-4500 as well as two SVS subwoofers loaned to me without me having even asked. JBL and SVS both contacted me directly and asked if I would like to test these. And in those cases, I jumped at the opportunity. So, there are times (like now) where I have my hands full without anyone else really knowing about it (community wide).

 

[richard12511]

While we are on the subject of Genelec, if anyone here happens to know someone I could contact about potentially acquiring a loaner set of the 8351B (or anything else you guys want to see) for review then I would be happy to reach out and inquire myself. That might be more helpful than sending an email to the general customer service channels where I am likely to be ignored.


Or, if you guys happen to have an "in" with Sweetwater or B&H that would be great. I have some ideas there that might be beneficial to us all.

@Ilkka Rissanen , @Thomas Lund are here on the forums. Would be great to see Genelec send a sample out a 8351b for testing.

I'm guessing it will measure very similar to the 8341 that Amir measured, with a bit more extension and output.

 

[lherrm]

Understood.

I think the best way to go about it would be to have a "community interest thread" or something along those lines. Have votes, discussion, etc about what people want. If a lot of folks want to see a speaker tested then you guys go about funding the purchase/acquisition and then send it to me or Amir (assuming he is interested as well).

I'd imagine that if there is a lot of community interest then I'd be interested as well. It would then just come down to timing and availability for me. I do test things outside of the community either through my own or via contact with manufacturers. Some manufacturers have reached out to me and sent me stuff to test. For example, I have the JBL HDI-3800 & HDI-4500 as well as two SVS subwoofers loaned to me without me having even asked. JBL and SVS both contacted me directly and asked if I would like to test these. And in those cases, I jumped at the opportunity. So, there are times (like now) where I have my hands full without anyone else really knowing about it (community wide).

Nice to hear you caught these guys interest already.

There's a thread for the budget speakers you like to see reviewed.
The idea would be to do The speaker you would like Erin' to review thread, have people list speaker names, setup a poll with the ~10 most requested, and see what's going out of it. Just one speaker to start with, to keep it simple. Then you define a timeline, and the community handles the rest.

 

[hardisj]

Nice to hear you caught these guys interest already.

There's a thread for the budget speakers you like to see reviewed.
The idea would be to do The speaker you would like Erin' to review thread, have people list speaker names, setup a poll with the 10 most requested, and see what's going out of it. Just one speaker to start with, to keep it simple. Then you define a timeline, and the community handles the rest.

I think that's fair.

I know I have the Kali IN-5 coming at some point. I am hoping to hear back from the US Kii distributor soon. I need to test and review the JBL's. I need to finish the review of the SVS'. I also need to finish up my review of the Kef R3. But I hope to have my plate empty within a month. I'm planning to do another round of "budget subwoofer shootout" for 12-inch subs which will take some time. So, maybe we can shoot for a timeline of about a month or two out.

 

[lherrm]

I'm just talking about you, because the community likes (loves) what you do.
Of course, this could be applied to our host, @amirm, as well.
I think such a process could be most effective if simpler, and related to an identifiable person.

 

[hardisj]

I'm just talking about you, because the community likes (loves) what you do.
Of course, this could be applied to our host, @amirm, as well.
I think such a process could be most effective if simpler, and related to an identifiable person.

Gotcha. Yea, that's fine if you want to start a new thread about it and just quote some of our posts here (or however you want to do it). At least with me. I don't imagine Amir would mind but that's his call as this is his forum.

 

[Ericglo]

Watched both videos. In HD. Good job on the review and explanation of the design.

I didn't like the dog abuse at the end. PETA has been notified.

 

[Ericglo]

I did get the fab shop to make some stands which I sketched for my NS1000M speakers but that was around 40 years ago.
I also got the manufacturing department to get quotes for a short run of enclosures using my Goldmund Mimesis 22 as a "pattern" since one of my colleagues fancied making a high end preamp and it was the nicest made one we had seen.
It is made of ally plate and held together by bolts through battens into blind holes (the most expensive to machine) and it turned out in a small batch (20 iirc) the enclosure would cost £7000 each to make!
I can see why most are a folded steel box with a fancy faceplate

LOL to bad you couldn't get one of the other teams to go into audio like McLaren.


You have mentioned the Yamahas in the past and the new 5000s are at the top of my list to audition. I recently found out (last week) that there is a dealer in Miami. When I get a chance, I plan to drop by and listen.

In that vein, it was mentioned earlier that I should take the plunge with the D&Ds. I must confess they are tempting, but I think Erin's reply below is inline with my thinking.

99% doubtful. I don't have that kind of money (especially now). But I can't say "never" because maybe one day I will.

If the real question is "would I buy them?" then the answer is: yes. Or, they'd certainly be on my list. There are soooo many speakers out in the wild I know nothing about. Different sizes, different types, different purposes. And I like "playing" with stuff too much to ever have anything be "final". But I like this speaker enough to say that if I were in the market for something like this then I would definitely not hesitate to buy it.

I have attended Cedia most years and have been to Axpona. I am intrigued and fascinated when someone thinks differently. I would say the last Cedia I attended I felt that way about the relatively inexpensive PE CBT speakers. I even dragged my friend Nigel (ArrowAV) to have a listen. Speakers like that peak my interest, so much so that I have thought about playing around with some ideas in the CBT realm. After that, I still haven't heard any Unity speakers and the list goes on.

I will say that based on Erin's excellent review that I will mention and recommend them to my customers. I am in a different business. I can see the D&Ds having an excellent WAF and fit with decor from the likes of Roche Bobois, Holly Hunt, Liaigre, etc. especially here in Miami

 

[HooStat]

I wonder if they are going to produce other designs (not counting the 8c studio as a different design). Or if/when they will update their current design (for example, with new/improved drivers or electronics). There are other companies that are moving into this space and the competition will heat up. But I am a big fan.

 

[MZKM]

The speaker you would like Erin' to review thread, have people list speaker names, setup a poll with the ~10 most requested, and see what's going out of it. Just one speaker to start with, to keep it simple. Then you define a timeline, and the community handles the rest.

Something similar to what RTINGS does would be great:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/suggestions

Now, of course that would require coding.

For something dynamic but rudimentary, and if Erin wants, I could try my hand at a dynamically linked Google Form & Sheet

1. Go to Form, choose speaker from drop-down.
   1. If desired speaker is not listed, type in speaker name; which counts as a vote.
2. Submit your vote.
3. Completion page has link to a Google Sheet that shows a ranking of the list of speakers based on votes.

Now, unless limiting to one vote, that means some troll could vote 500 times for a specific speaker. But if limiting to one vote, then might as well just do polls on this site.

 

[CPR]

After such an exhaustive review of the Dutch & Dutch 8c, I would like in the future to be able to see reviews of some of their competitors: Grimm LS1, Kii Three, Eden Tômei, Geithain RL921K.

 

[hardisj]

Something similar to what RTINGS does would be great:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/suggestions

Now, of course that would require coding.

For something dynamic but rudimentary, and if Erin wants, I could try my hand at a dynamically linked Google Form & Sheet

1. Go to Form, choose speaker from drop-down.
   1. If desired speaker is not listed, type in speaker name; which counts as a vote.
2. Submit your vote.
3. Completion page has link to a Google Sheet that shows a ranking of the list of speakers based on votes.

Now, unless limiting to one vote, that means some troll could vote 500 times for a specific speaker. But if limiting to one vote, then might as well just do polls on this site.

Don’t matter to me how you guys figure it out. Just let me know when you do and I can give whoever my address.

 

[lherrm]

Something similar to what RTINGS does would be great:
https://www.rtings.com/headphones/suggestions

Now, of course that would require coding.

For something dynamic but rudimentary, and if Erin wants, I could try my hand at a dynamically linked Google Form & Sheet

1. Go to Form, choose speaker from drop-down.
   1. If desired speaker is not listed, type in speaker name; which counts as a vote.
2. Submit your vote.
3. Completion page has link to a Google Sheet that shows a ranking of the list of speakers based on votes.

Now, unless limiting to one vote, that means some troll could vote 500 times for a specific speaker. But if limiting to one vote, then might as well just do polls on this site.

While I agree it would be great, as you mention, if limiting to one vote (per email ?), it would be quite the same as doing it with a poll here (after gathering propositions within the thread).

 

[richard12511]

After such an exhaustive review of the Dutch & Dutch 8c, I would like in the future to be able to see reviews of some of their competitors: Grimm LS1, Kii Three, Eden Tômei, Geithain RL921K.

Would be awesome to see the Grimm LS1. Just looking at it objectively, I'm a bit skeptical it can compete with D&D 8C and Kii Three. Subjectively though, it seems to get higher praise than those other two.

 

[MZKM]

Would be awesome to see the Grimm LS1. Just looking at it objectively, I'm a bit skeptical it can compete with D&D 8C and Kii Three. Subjectively though, it seems to get higher praise than those other two.

The website has an on-axis and a “room response“, and the room response has like a 3dB dip at 1500Hz and even if not the directivity is not great, you can draw 3 linear lines, from 150Hz-300Hz, from 300Hz-1000Hz, and 3000Hz-15000Hz.

 

[richard12511]

The website has an on-axis and a “room response“, and the room response has like a 3dB dip at 1500Hz and even if not the directivity is not great, you can draw 3 linear lines, from 150Hz-300Hz, from 300Hz-1000Hz, and 3000Hz-15000Hz.

I think I've seen the on axis and sound power measurement. On axis looks fantastic, near perfect, but that's not enough to convince me it's as good as the 8C. 8C is more than just fantastic on axis.

The sound power looks good(if we're talking about the same graph), but not Genelec Ones good.

 

[oivavoi]

Would be awesome to see the Grimm LS1. Just looking at it objectively, I'm a bit skeptical it can compete with D&D 8C and Kii Three. Subjectively though, it seems to get higher praise than those other two.

That's been my experience, at least. Listened to those speakers in different rooms at different times. So really can't compare. But speaking of subjective experience, the Grimm LS1 floored me. Completely. It's definitely on my top three "best loudspeaker experiences ever" list. The 8Cs and the Kiis are/were excellent and superb, but did not leave me speechless in the same way. There may be many reasons for that of course, room acoustics, various types of bias, listening mood and receptivity, etc. Anyhow those were my subjective impressions.

 

[lherrm]

Gotcha. Yea, that's fine if you want to start a new thread about it and just quote some of our posts here (or however you want to do it). At least with me. I don't imagine Amir would mind but that's his call as this is his forum.

Here it is. We may continue discussion about this over there not to clutter the 8C review further.

 

[restorer-john]

I did get the fab shop to make some stands which I sketched for my NS1000M speakers but that was around 40 years ago.

You could have bought a pair of these (SPS-500) Frank.

(Dad's stands I refinished for him a few months ago)

Yamaha also made a very rare pair of metal adjustable, bolted together, black and silver locking stands for the NS-1000M is the mid 1980s. Unseen outside Japan but I have a picture someplace. You would have liked them, all F1 looking. No model number was allocated AFAIK.

 

[Doodski]

You could have bought a pair of these (SPS-500) Frank.

View attachment 117498
(Dad's stands I refinished for him a few months ago)

Yamaha also made a very rare pair of metal adjustable, bolted together, black and silver locking stands for the NS-1000M is the mid 1980s. Unseen outside Japan but I have a picture someplace. You would have liked them, all F1 looking. No model number was allocated AFAIK.

In the mid-80's I worked for a very large audio dealer that was a major Yamaha supporter and we had full support from Yamaha Canada. We had everything Yamaha in audio gear. We had NS-1000 in grand piano finish and we never had the stands. If they where available in Canada we would have had them. They must be rare. Anything NS-1000 series sold in a matter of weeks.