Dutch&Dutch 8C ATC active 50’s listening

[Purité Audio]

What's the retail price on these Keith?

SRP in the U.K. is £8995 inc vat, everything built in, DACs adcs, every parameter is adjustable by app, including volume.
Boundary, contour, gain, input digital/analogue tone controls on/off mute etc etc.
They will be ‘Roon ready’ very soon, I use the RME ADI Pro-2 to send them a digital signal , they really are good, listeners prefer them generally to the Kiis,
‘Sound arguement’ described his thoughts here ,
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/forum/loudspeakers/kii-three-and-dutch-dutch8c-compared
Keith

 

[Vintage57]

Keith have you tried DSP processing on the ATC and comparing them to the 8C. The quality of the ATC drivers should shine through, me thinks.

 

[Purité Audio]

I use an Illusonic IAP processor with the ATCs and the EQ created by Christof Faller ( Illusonic ) really helps, but they are still nowhere as good as the Kiis or the 8Cs, the ‘myth of the mid-range dome’ is just marketing.
Keith

 

[Dialectic]

The D&D 8Cs and Kii Threes are the best non-BACCHed speakers that I have heard, and I've heard nearly everything in existence (not Zellatons, not the Big Magicos, and not the new $700K Wilson monstrosities). Keith is not exaggerating.

 

[Vintage57]

Keith are you still an ATC dealer?
Gotta ask..

 

[Purité Audio]

No we were kicked off this week, I certainly never rubbished the speaker’s and did everything to get the best sound from them, including using the Illusonic IAP.
We had enquiries and were more than happy to demonstrate, but if the customer wanted to compare to either Kii or Dutch&Dutch we didn’t refuse.
Once heard then either of those speakers rather put ATC in the shade.
I feel that ATC are rather hobbled by their own demographic, I don’t believe their core customers want more modern designs.
Keith

 

[Vintage57]

I had to look it up but are the Illusonic IAP devices not parametric EQ'svs full DSP room correction for the Kii and D&D?

 

[Purité Audio]

Neither KII or Dutch&Dutch use room correction, they each create a cardioid response, albeit by different means.
DSP for crossovers and to correct driver anomalies , phase coherence etc etc.
Just both more modern designs offering a completely full-range sound from a more compact enclosure .
I firmly believe that such designs are the future their benefits re immediately obvious in direct comparisons.
Keith

 

[Vintage57]

'the ‘myth of the mid-range dome’ is just marketing.'

Really, so many of us have been duped...

Maybe some sour grapes mixed in...

 

[Frank Dernie]

'the ‘myth of the mid-range dome’ is just marketing.'

Really, so many of us have been duped...

Maybe some sour grapes mixed in...

Keith doesn't do sour grapes IME.
He still praised Kii even after they dropped him as a dealer (and he is a dealer again now).
I have owned Proac EBS speakers for decades (they have the same ATC mid and bass units as the 50s in a BBC type cabinet) and like the sound but I am aware of, and have seen measurements of, the resonance of the ATC dome, well damped but there.

 

[oivavoi]

I'm still waiting on my pair of 8C's, by the way. Postings from some guys on Gearslutz confirms that I'm not the only one. Seems like they had some serious hiccups with production. Anyway, I'm sure the wait will be worth it!

 

[Purité Audio]

Really no sour grapes, many people consider ATC a reference, I am sure back in the 1970’s they were really something , but technology moves on.
The Kiis and Dutch&Dutch 8C were conceived as a system , the DSP, adc,DACs, coding and the hardware are just parts of the whole .
I have the ATCs here you are very welcome to come and hear for yourself, both the THREEs and 8Cs have far greater resolution than the ATCs that is not the fault of the ATC it is just physics, the 60Hz-2kHz cardioid response really makes a difference, far more effectively than EQing ‘traditional’ loudspeakers.
When you hear the ATCs and Kii/8C side by side it is totally obvious.
Also they are completely full range, their boundary filters make them easy to site, they are cheaper but have built in preamp, dac, adc and EQ tone controls etc etc.
Keith

 

[Vintage57]

Keith if I lived closer I would.
I’ve had ATC’s since 2004 the SCM150 ASL, since then many opportunities to hear other well regarded speakers. I’ve heard good but not better not yet.
I’ve not heard either theKii or the D&D’s.
I did recently buy a pair of JBL 4367’s based on spec, they measure well. I’m playing with placement and amps and they’re not winning the honours of reference.
I’m waiting for MiniDSP digital unit to arrive and I’m hopeful it will help take the room out of the equation.

 

[Jaimo]

@Vintage57 - How did you make out on the 4367’s?

 

[Vintage57]

I sold the 4367’s last year in September, there was something about the sound, it was fatiguing.
I also sold the ATC this fall after auditioning and buying a pair of Neumann KH 420 which are great except in the looks dept. I had to buy the studio version as Neumann doesn’t offer a consumer version. Undoubtedly the best SQ I have had in my home.