Dutch&Dutch 8C and Kii THREE compared

[Purité Audio]

Hopefully the first piece of a proper objective and subjective comparison, I am going to measure the bass distortion of the Kiis today.
The Kii THREE design has been dogged since day one by the very poor bass distortion measurements posted in ‘Audio’ magazines review,
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/forum/loudspeakers/kii-three-and-dutch-dutch-8c-s-compared

Keith

 

[tifune]

Hopefully the first piece of a proper objective and subjective comparison, I am going to measure the bass distortion of the Kiis today.
The Kii THREE design has been dogged since day one by the very poor bass distortion measurements posted in ‘Audio’ magazines review,
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/forum/loudspeakers/kii-three-and-dutch-dutch-8c-s-compared

Keith

Is this still available somewhere? I tried using Wayback machine but all I can find is photos of the 2 side by side, no measurements

 

[Purité Audio]

I have both here I can re-measure what specifically would you be interested in?
What is more interesting is the 8Cs/Kiis compared to traditional designs, I stopped stocking passive designs some time ago but if you want to bring a particular design here?

Keith

 

[tifune]

Well, I have access to neither but I'm trying to understand why subjective reviews seem to favor the 8C and all I have is measurements. Good measurements, but still just measurements... So this is one case where I was more interested in the 'subjective' aspect of your article

Specifically, I've been interested in getting a 20(ish)-20 speaker for some time now. As I see it, the options are:

Buchardt - lowest cost, controlled but not exactly cardioid, minimum distance 75cm with nearfield tuning, but also poor(-ish) vertical directivity *in the context of nearfield*
Mesanovic - good but slightly incomplete measurements, some debate around ribbon tweeter, per manual minimum distance 1.5m which probably disqualifies for nearfield
8C - slightly less than Kii, directive to about 100Hz, minimum distance 80cm (per D&D support)
Kii - directive to about 60Hz, minimum listening distance 1.5m (probably disqualified for nearfield)

My listening distance is about 1m, give it or take. These also will NOT be up against wall, more middle of the room. So, on the surface of it, it's down to A500 or 8C but I'm willing to rearrange a bit if there's a significant gain with RTM10 or Kii. Hence, why I'm going through subjective reviews of people who seem a bit more qualified (purite, erin, mitchco, etc) than myself or some YouTuber who's just spewing whatever they can think of to get you to smash that subscribe button.

 

[Purité Audio]

You would be most welcome to hear the Kii/8C/Mesanovic if you are in or anywhere near the UK.
My personal favourites are the 8C, but Kiis are really good too, the Roon Ready feature is really good and there will be another really interesting feature being added soon!
Keith

 

[tifune]

You would be most welcome to hear the Kii/8C/Mesanovic if you are in or anywhere near the UK.
My personal favourites are the 8C, but Kiis are really good too, the Roon Ready feature is really good and there will be another really interesting feature being added soon!
Keith

Anything in particular that you can recollect or describe? If you've mentioned elsewhere, you can just point me that way - appreciated.

 

[Shorty]

If you really want to put them in the middle of the room, it surely would be pointless to even audition the 8c…

 

[Purité Audio]

They work really well placed anywhere, you simply tell the loudspeaker where it is in relation to the rear and side walls and it adjusts its bass output ( and mid and treble delay ) accordingly.
Keith

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

I'm getting a 404 error from the OP link.

 

[jayrao]

@Purité Audio Do you still have the measurements and subjective comparison notes between these two? I'm strongly considering them for a 9x13 bedroom and am wondering which you would recommend for that type of environment as well as a much larger 400+ sqft basement.

 

[Purité Audio]

Jayrao, they are both fine speakers, personally i always preferred the slightly ‘darker/ weightier’ sound of the 8Cs, which I believe is due to the difference in the degree of downward slope in their default target curves.
The Kii being more horizontally flat than the 8Cs which had a slightly more downward sloping ( more bass slightly less treble) target.
However that was then now I would recommend AsciLabs C8/BX8C which are every bit as good if not better and a third of the price.

AsciLabs C8C active cardioid loudspeaker

AsciLab C8C active cardioid three-way loudspeaker and BX8C sub-module available at Purité Audio London

www.puriteaudio.co.uk

Keith

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Jayrao, they are both fine speakers, personally i always preferred the slightly ‘darker/ weightier’ sound of the 8Cs, which I believe is due to the difference in the degree of downward slope in their default target curves.

Yup. More fodder for discussion here: D&D 8c in Stereophile

 

[Matias]

 

[jayrao]

View attachment 520090

Wow! The Ascilab seems to measure significantly better I might just get that? What are your thoughts?

 

[Dialectic]

Jayrao, they are both fine speakers, personally i always preferred the slightly ‘darker/ weightier’ sound of the 8Cs, which I believe is due to the difference in the degree of downward slope in their default target curves.
The Kii being more horizontally flat than the 8Cs which had a slightly more downward sloping ( more bass slightly less treble) target.
However that was then now I would recommend AsciLabs C8/BX8C which are every bit as good if not better and a third of the price.

AsciLabs C8C active cardioid loudspeaker

AsciLab C8C active cardioid three-way loudspeaker and BX8C sub-module available at Purité Audio London

www.puriteaudio.co.uk

Keith

Shots fired

 

[Purité Audio]

Wow! The Ascilab seems to measure significantly better I might just get that? What are your thoughts?

They are both fine loudspeakers but when you consider you can add the BX8C to the C8C ( which is a formidable combination KiiTHREE/BXT at £34k anyone) and still save £3k on the price of a pair of 8Cs…
Keith

 

[Matias]

Agreed. These are just comparing the speakers alone, when adding the bass extensions, AsciLab runs circles around the competition both in linearity and value.

 

[jayrao]

They are both fine loudspeakers but when you consider you can add the BX8C to the C8C ( which is a formidable combination KiiTHREE/BXT at £34k anyone) and still save £3k on the price of a pair of 8Cs…
Keith

I happen to be in the unique position where the Ascilab and Kii are the same price so things get interesting I guess. Still tempted towards the C8C based on measurements but curious to know your subjective thoughts as there is no NA showroom at the moment

 

[jayrao]

Agreed. These are just comparing the speakers alone, when adding the bass extensions, AsciLab runs circles around the competition both in linearity and value.

The BXT would be a similar price with the modules together I can get them for 19k but there's no showroom for them.

 

[Purité Audio]

That is very unusual and fortunate for you over here Kii/BXT have a RRP starting at £34k for the standard finishes, C8C/BX8C £10500 inc vat and delivery.
Keith