Dutch & Dutch 15C Discussion

[829]

Yes, as long as the dynamic range/compression and distortion is not limited.

Welcome to the Genelec 8381A.

 

[Jaxx1138]

Welcome to the Genelec 8381A.

Is that a cardiod woofer design?

 

[Sokel]

Is that a cardiod woofer design?

And a steering mode as well if I remember right.

 

[Jaxx1138]

And a steering mode as well if I remember right.

I have not heard it but I am somewhat suspicious of Genelec units. Used them before and been disappointed with the SAM units.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The children and I have recently been into Bach organ works. Reproduction of organ is audibly compromised on all of my systems--least of all my Dutch & Dutch 8Cs. My "TV system" of LS50s and 12" SVS subwoofer cannot keep up beyond very modest volumes, and pedal tones are not played back properly.

Despite those quibbles (hopefully addressed in future upgrades), I recommend this rendition of the Passcaglia and Fugue in C minor, BWV582; it probably sounds spectacular on the 15Cs, which, despite my admiration for Dutch & Dutch, I will not be buying.

One of my favourite pieces for decades!

 

[Karmacoma]

I have not heard it but I am somewhat suspicious of Genelec units. Used them before and been disappointed with the SAM units.

Could you elaborate? They get a lot of praise, always nice to have an alternative viewpoint.

 

[829]

I have not heard it but I am somewhat suspicious of Genelec units. Used them before and been disappointed with the SAM units.

I'm not sure why anybody would be disappointed with the SAM units acoustically; unless too small units were bought with too "big" bass in mind - or monitor setup was wrong. While the Genelec 8381A most probably is the better speaker compared to D&D 15C and certainly more flexible in its use, it also looks quite alright in piano black.

More information on the cardioid patterns on page 6 in the manual and some measurements on page 15.

 

[Purité Audio]

I was told that it isn’t going to be made in gloss black, which is a pity, gloss would have made it marginally more acceptable in a domestic environment.
Keith

 

[Tell]

I was told that it isn’t going to be made in gloss black, which is a pity, gloss would have made it marginally more acceptable in a domestic environment.
Keith

That would look even worse imo. Gloss on speakers rarely look good imo (but then I'm a matt-everything guy), and these oversized bookshelf behemoths would look even weirder.

 

[Dialectic]

I was told that it isn’t going to be made in gloss black

It would look interesting in white.

 

[Bwaslo]

It would look interesting in white.

White makes things look bigger (think refrigerator). I vote cobalt blue.

 

[Paul7777x]

A deep satin black certainly… but gloss? On something that size. Ugh.

Apart from that, on a sunny day the reflections might boil your retinas.

 

[Jaxx1138]

Could you elaborate? They get a lot of praise, always nice to have an alternative viewpoint.

Well , I don't like making claims without measurements but they tend to compress too early. At least the smaller units. (I can't speak to the new large ones as I have not heard nor measured them). My impressions when comparing them to other monitors is they tend to is that peaks above say around 90dB at the listening position sound like a limiter kicks in. This is only my experience when listening to them against say JBL monitors or Mackie monitors. This is my impression and I have spoken to other colleagues and they described a similar experience. Other than that there flat , clear, open, well defined. Just don't like loud crescendos. At least that was my impression. I used them for testing microphones because they were concentric and I was using a reciprocity method.

 

[Karmacoma]

Well , I don't like making claims without measurements but they tend to compress too early. At least the smaller units. (I can't speak to the new large ones as I have not heard nor measured them). My impressions when comparing them to other monitors is they tend to is that peaks above say around 90dB at the listening position sound like a limiter kicks in. This is only my experience when listening to them against say JBL monitors or Mackie monitors. This is my impression and I have spoken to other colleagues and they described a similar experience. Other than that there flat , clear, open, well defined. Just don't like loud crescendos. At least that was my impression. I used them for testing microphones because they were concentric and I was using a reciprocity method.

Genelec 8331 instantaneous compression test. Limiter kicks in at 100dB

Credit to erin's audio corner

 

[Jaxx1138]

Genelec 8331 instantaneous compression test. Limiter kicks in at 100dB
View attachment 530270
Credit to erin's audio corner

Well ; that is in my opinion, too much and too early for a studio monitor. But thanks for the data.

 

[829]

Genelec 8331 instantaneous compression test. Limiter kicks in at 100dB
View attachment 530270
Credit to erin's audio corner

Well ; that is in my opinion, too much and too early for a studio monitor. But thanks for the data.

I agree on that but then it's still not a Genelec specific issue - rather the wrong monitor choice for the intended application, as you could find "high-SPL specialists" among the Genelecs, if you wanted to (like 1032C, 8361A or the SAM Main Monitors).

If cost matters, get a different design at a lower price like Neumann KH 150 and enjoy deeper bass as well as bigger headroom (compared to the mentioned 8331A). It's all really a matter of choosing the right tools for the intended job!

Btw., the THD by dB SPL @ 1m table published in the 8381A brochure (on page 10) is pretty amazing. Hopefully someone will send a pair to amirm or Erin for testing, alongside the D&D 15C. xD

 

[Pearljam5000]

I also like the white more

It would look interesting in white.

 

[Karmacoma]

White makes things look bigger

I think it wouldn't on a white wall

 

[Satanica]

I'm not sure why anybody would be disappointed with the SAM units acoustically; unless too small units were bought with too "big" bass in mind - or monitor setup was wrong. While the Genelec 8381A most probably is the better speaker compared to D&D 15C and certainly more flexible in its use, it also looks quite alright in piano black.

More information on the cardioid patterns on page 6 in the manual and some measurements on page 15.

To me, the measurements provided for the Genelec 8381A makes it look somewhat inferior to the Dutch & Dutch 8C, at least in horizontal dispersion.
It does not look as well controlled in the Genelec 8381A, there's a widening at 1kHz and it's overall horizontal directivity is not as constant.
Obviously the Genelec 8381A is in a completely different league when it comes to output and it's greater point source attribute means one can site more above or below it.
And one last thing, the 15C might not be as good as the 8C, I wonder if the 15C will ever be Klippel measured.

 

[Karmacoma]

To me, the measurements provided for the Genelec 8381A makes it look somewhat inferior to the Dutch & Dutch 8C, at least in horizontal dispersion.
It does not look as well controlled in the Genelec 8381A, there's a widening at 1kHz and it's overall horizontal directivity is not as constant.

The thing is, once glm comes into play it won't make a difference, and the imaging of the 8381a's gonna be unbeatable.
It'd be crazy to be able to make a double blind test with these 2 and verify that theory, I'd be ready to pay for this (not 200k€ though).