Dutch & Dutch 15C Discussion

[Tovarich007]

$70K is not that expensive for the hifi crowd
Some people buy cables that cost more than that
So I'm not sure the price is the main attraction here

$70k "not that expensive" ?? Are you kidding ??

Do not confuse the common "hifi crowd" (I don't know eaxctly what it is for you) and the happy few enthusiast connoisseurs who can afford such systems.(or some gullible snobs, buying super expensive electronics and speakers plus out of this world cables or other snake oil accessories ).

Happy for them, I'm not a jealous guy for money, but 70k$ definitely is SUPER EXPENSIVE !

 

[Pearljam5000]

$70k "not that expensive" ?? Are you kidding ??

Do not confuse the common "hifi crowd" (I don't know eaxctly what it is for you) and the happy few enthusiast connoisseurs who can afford such systems.(or some gullible snobs, buying super expensive electronics and speakers plus out of this world cables or other snake oil accessories ).

Happy for them, I'm not a jealous guy for money, but 70k$ definitely is SUPER EXPENSIVE !

It's all relative
He compared it to Magico and Wilson
The M9 costs $750K so for these customers yeah $70K is not alot

 

[Purité Audio]

Sure, but only big ones. In a small studio you are too close, room modes dominate and you never use the headroom, so most of what the 15c can do is wasted.

You can, ameliorate the effects of room modes easily enough particularly with contemporary actives because they have built-in equalisation.
Keith

 

[Mort]

How long is a piece of string?

 

[Buckchester]

How long is a piece of string?

About 5 feet. No, 6. Yes. 6.

 

[Avp1]

$70k "not that expensive" ?? Are you kidding ??

Do not confuse the common "hifi crowd" (I don't know eaxctly what it is for you) and the happy few enthusiast connoisseurs who can afford such systems.(or some gullible snobs, buying super expensive electronics and speakers plus out of this world cables or other snake oil accessories ).

Happy for them, I'm not a jealous guy for money, but 70k$ definitely is SUPER EXPENSIVE !

$70K is not that expensive if they do what they promise: clean sound in completely untreated room. People are routinely spending that much on audio components and then have to ADD a dedicated heavily treated room to make them sound well. Ability of make a clean sound in any random large enough space is a very good proposition. Again: if they do what they said they do.

 

[markstein]

$70K is not that expensive if they do what they promise: clean sound in completely untreated room. People are routinely spending that much on audio components and then have to ADD a dedicated heavily treated room to make them sound well. Ability of make a clean sound in any random large enough space is a very good proposition. Again: if they do what they said they do.

It is wrong to assume that cardioid dispersion makes any room treatment unnecessary. It just reduces the effects of SBIR. All other effects, especially standing waves/ room modes remain. And, not to forget, the listener position also suffers from SBIR.

 

[Avp1]

It is wrong to assume that cardioid dispersion makes any room treatment unnecessary. It just reduces the effects of SBIR. All other effects, especially standing waves/ room modes remain. And, not to forget, the listener position also suffers from SBIR.

Well, then the whole idea of cardioid dispersion is overrated.

 

[Purité Audio]

Because it doesn’t cure every issue plaguing mankind?
Keith

 

[Avp1]

Because it doesn’t cure every issue plaguing mankind?
Keith

The only real cure is required for random untreated room. All things discussed here are mostly irrelevant if room resembles anechoic chamber, only low distortion at high SPL remains (for which D&S speakers are NOT known of).

 

[markstein]

Well, then the whole idea of cardioid dispersion is overrated.

It reduces the loudspeaker SBIR issue. Whether this is worth the additional effort and provides an advantage over a equalized conventional loudspeaker is the interesting question. I personally still need to do such a test, other more experienced people here may provide their impression.

 

[NTK]

In my search for literature that shows cardioid directivity for speakers is beneficial, I came across this Master's thesis (abstract shown below).

Note that the (outside/industry) advisor Dr. Aki Mäkivirta is Genelec's R&D Director, and the results of this (and probably other similar) research likely supported Genelec's decision to go for narrower low frequency directivity in their recent products.

 

[sigbergaudio]

In my search for literature that shows cardioid directivity for speakers is beneficial, I came across this Master's thesis (abstract shown below).

Note that the (outside/industry) advisor Dr. Aki Mäkivirta is Genelec's R&D Director, and the results of this (and probably other similar) research likely supported Genelec's decision to go for narrower low frequency directivity in their recent products.
View attachment 508127

Interesting find. Do you have a link / reference to the actual thesis?

 

[NTK]

Interesting find. Do you have a link / reference to the actual thesis?

Here it is.

Improving two–way loudspeaker directivity

Compact conventional two–way loudspeakers radiate omnidirectionally typically at frequencies below 500 Hz and the acoustic directivity of increases with frequency. Such loudspeakers couple with room acoustics efficiently at low frequencies, evoking room mode resonances and early reflections...

aaltodoc.aalto.fi

Permalink: https://urn.fi/URN:NBN:fi:aalto-202003222629

 

[Sokel]

I wouldn't call these speakers really big at their range.
I reckon that acoustic center is at about 110 cm, and that with the stands.

Mains monitors and big towers are a whole lot bigger and they used to be like that for decades.

A 40 yo JBL 4350 for example annihilates them in terms of size.
Cardioid is a nice addition too, and I guess now days that real estate gets difficult so soffit-mounting is not an option for some, it would come handy.
But I would still prefer some steering modes as an option.

 

[AudioJester]

Erin hasdone some cardioid simulations recently. Worth a look

 

[slaweks]

The only real cure is required for random untreated room. All things discussed here are mostly irrelevant if room resembles anechoic chamber, only low distortion at high SPL remains (for which D&S speakers are NOT known of).

But it is not easy to get an anechoic chamber at home.

 

[Avp1]

But it is not easy to get an anechoic chamber at home.

It is not that hard if you spent $70K on speakers. Probably another $70K for room treatments or rather room BUILDUP. There is almost no restrictions, if you have a dedicated room.

 

[slaweks]

It is not that hard if you spent $70K on speakers. Probably another $70K for room treatments or rather room BUILDUP. There is almost no restrictions, if you have a dedicated room.

Well, to start, the room needs to be big, because you need say 1.5 meter of absorption on every wall and ceiling plus a place for base traps.

 

[Avp1]

Well, to start, the room needs to be big, because you need say 1.5 meter of absorption on every wall and ceiling plus a place for base traps.

400sqf is not hard to get here in USA. Often less will work if you use attic space above ceiling and behind walls. I am seriously considering flash mounting my ATC SCM100 - I have unused space behind one wall.