Dutch & Dutch 15C Discussion

[Duke]

Amps and smarts will be external.

Brilliant!

 

[Pearljam5000]

Who here is going to buy them when they'll be available?

 

[dfuller]

They cost as much as a very nice car and are the size of a refrigerator, I don't know how many people here have both money and space for them.


These strike me mostly as a studio tool .

 

[Reddoc]

Who here is going to buy them when they'll be available?

They looked exciting at first but too big for my space

 

[Pearljam5000]

They cost as much as a very nice car and are the size of a refrigerator, I don't know how many people here have both money and space for them.


These strike me mostly as a studio tool .

Thanks
Now I feel better about myself not being able to afford them

 

[Purité Audio]

Unfortunately, the amps got stuck in customs.
Amps and smarts will be external. Not built in as the 8c and 6c.

That must have been frustrating/exasperating/disappointing.
Keith

 

[Pearljam5000]

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

The baffle appears to be about 24" wide. How much of a difference does the cardioid even make at that size?

And wouldn't it be possible to create the cardioid with the rear woofers instead of the passive design? It seems like pattern control would only be necessary up to 200-300Hz. The passive design was necessary on the 8C because of the physical size of the speaker. The main drawback was that pattern control came at the cost of output and the speaker is inefficient for its size at low frequencies. With such large dimensions on this one you could use the depth as an advantage to create a cardioid that boosts efficiency instead of reducing it. For such a large speaker it will have lower output than you would expect.

 

[Pearljam5000]

The baffle appears to be about 24" wide. How much of a difference does the cardioid even make at that size?

And wouldn't it be possible to create the cardioid with the rear woofers instead of the passive design? It seems like pattern control would only be necessary up to 200-300Hz. The passive design was necessary on the 8C because of the physical size of the speaker. The main drawback was that pattern control came at the cost of output and the speaker is inefficient for its size at low frequencies. With such large dimensions on this one you could use the depth as an advantage to create a cardioid that boosts efficiency instead of reducing it. For such a large speaker it will have lower output than you would expect.

How much lower?

 

[thcdru2k]

I think these are aiming at the same audience for Focal Utopia/Wilson Audio. It's too big for small studios. I think super wealthy audiophiles or serious home theater enthusiasts who have been exposed to the sound of professional monitors.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

How much lower?

How much lower?

The max output is stated as 106dB. That is quite low for a speaker with three 8" drivers.

I've only done some crude modeling with VituidCAD to get an idea of how much you lose with the cardioid, so I don't want to give an exact figure, but you can see how bad the distortion is from Erin's review of the 8C. The cardioid extends down to 100Hz, and you can see how high distortion gets at relatively tame SPL levels for a speaker of its size. There is a significant loss of output from using a passive cardioid like this that is being corrected with heavy EQ.

 

[Tovarich007]

The max output is stated as 106dB. That is quite low for a speaker with three 8" drivers.

I've only done some crude modeling with VituidCAD to get an idea of how much you lose with the cardioid, so I don't want to give an exact figure, but you can see how bad the distortion is from Erin's review of the 8C. The cardioid extends down to 100Hz, and you can see how high distortion gets at relatively tame SPL levels for a speaker of its size. There is a significant loss of output from using a passive cardioid like this that is being corrected with heavy EQ.

Are we talking about the 15 S or the 8 s ? I'm lost in this thread...

 

[Tovarich007]

I think these are aiming at the same audience for Focal Utopia/Wilson Audio. It's too big for small studios. I think super wealthy audiophiles or serious home theater enthusiasts who have been exposed to the sound of professional monitors.

Or not "exposed" to the sound of pro monitrs... You talk not about pro monitors, but about the Wilson Audio or Focal Utopias, which are completely different speakers, very overrated IMHO (especially the WA).
So, what do you intend to say exactly ?

 

[thcdru2k]

Or not "exposed" to the sound of pro monitrs... You talk not about pro monitors, but about the Wilson Audio or Focal Utopias, which are completely different speakers, very overrated IMHO (especially the WA).
So, what do you intend to say exactly ?

I meant the crowd with big budgets who buy very expensive traditional speakers but might also appreciate designs focused on DSP.

 

[Pearljam5000]

$70K is not that expensive for the hifi crowd
Some people buy cables that cost more than that
So I'm not sure the price is the main attraction here

 

[thcdru2k]

Just think it will eventually find its way into some fortunate person's home not just a mastering studio. They have RoomMatching after all.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Just think it will eventually find its way into some fortunate person's home not just a mastering studio. They have RoomMatching after all.

But why not In a studio too ?

 

[kharan]

But why not In a studio too ?

You know what's often considered better than cardioid? Flush mount.

 

[Tovarich007]

Flush mounting isn't "better" than so called "cardioïd" (which is in fact not fully cardioîd). It all depnds on the use and the studio (or domestic room) built. The adavanteg of flush mounting is full integration inside the wall and use the width of the wall to increase and equalize (partly) the room modes, mostly in the bass. Cardoiïd acts in low medium and medium.
And big studios which have flush mounted main monitors are usally well acoustically treated plus room calibration and EQ systems.

As usual in pro audio, there is no absolute better technology, just different uses and configurations, and of course different budgets.

 

[thcdru2k]

But why not In a studio too ?

Sure, but only big ones. In a small studio you are too close, room modes dominate and you never use the headroom, so most of what the 15c can do is wasted.