Dunlavy Speakers

[MattHooper]

I paid $1650 for my pair, #842-A/B, so it seems high to me. I guess a person would have to decide whether or not the Deuland parts and walnut cabinet mods are worth an extra $2500 - $3000 over normal prices.

Wow, $1,650 for a pair of those speakers just sounds insane to me! I mean for the level of speaker you are getting for that money that’s just unbelievable. $5000 still feels like a bargain IMO.

 

[Brent71]

Wow, $1,650 for a pair of those speakers just sounds insane to me! I mean for the level of speaker you are getting for that money that’s just unbelievable. $5000 still feels like a bargain IMO.

They're an incredible value for the money because so few people want big monoliths in their living rooms, and they're a big hassle to ship. If they were smaller and easier to ship they'd be going for a lot more money. I paid $4000 for my second pair of SC-V, and spent roughly $1000 on a rental van and gas to make the 2100 mile round-trip to pick them up in Irvington, NY. Performance for the price is unmatched, they're just big and a major PITA to ship.

 

[materialbasis]

I've come across a pair of the SC-IV speakers for a pretty great price near me. Would be a 2 hour drive to go pick them up. However, they come without the original stands. Which the idea of, drives me insane, knowing I'd never find someone just selling the stands.

Does anyone run these speakers with their own stands, or without them at all? What is the impact of using them without stands? I've been dreaming of these speakers for over a decade now, and a pair have finally popped up at a price I can afford.

 

[signalpath]

I've come across a pair of the SC-IV speakers for a pretty great price near me. Would be a 2 hour drive to go pick them up. However, they come without the original stands. Which the idea of, drives me insane, knowing I'd never find someone just selling the stands.

Does anyone run these speakers with their own stands, or without them at all? What is the impact of using them without stands? I've been dreaming of these speakers for over a decade now, and a pair have finally popped up at a price I can afford.

John typically used a thick slab of wood as his "stands". Probably 4-5cm thick, extending out a few cm beyond the speaker edges. Nothing exotic or unique, just a solid base. You could easily make one, and match the finish. The SC-IV (SC-IVa) is perhaps my all-time favorite speaker, along with the SC-V. I would love to see someone re-make that design with today's best updated drivers. John's own parametric test charts showed the SC-IV to be one of the objectively best testing speakers made, though its low order crossover gave it a tight sweet spot. Great for studios and mastering rooms, maybe not the best for home entertainment with lots of people in the room.

I was curious and asked Perplexity about John's design parameters. Here's what it said, which tightly parallels my experience.
........................

Key design choices that shrink the sweet spot​

• Tall, symmetric driver arrays (W–M–T–M–W)
  The big SC‑series used vertically stacked, symmetrically placed drivers with substantial spacing between woofer, mid, and tweeter. That geometry naturally creates strong vertical lobing: move your ears up or down and you slide into interference nulls much faster than with a compact 2‑way.
• First‑order acoustic crossovers + strict time alignment
  Dunlavy used near‑pure 1st‑order (6 dB/octave) acoustic slopes and physical/ electrical time alignment so all drivers sum in phase at exactly one design axis, giving textbook‑nice step and impulse response.
  First‑order, time‑aligned arrays behave almost like a single tall line source focused on one point in space; as you move off that axis (especially vertically, or laterally when you’re close), the phase relationships between drivers change quickly and the summed response deteriorates—hence a tight sweet spot.
• Intended listening distance and height
  Dunlavy designed the larger models for a listening position around 10 feet away at tweeter height so the wavefronts from all drivers arrived nearly simultaneously at one precise ear position. Small deviations in distance or height pull you out of that optimized focus.

In other words, Dunlavy’s priorities—linear phase, superb imaging on‑axis, and very tall time‑aligned arrays with 1st‑order slopes—produce exceptional coherence at one carefully chosen seat, but at the price of a relatively narrow listening window, which people described as “head in a vice.”

 

[Brent71]

I've come across a pair of the SC-IV speakers for a pretty great price near me. Would be a 2 hour drive to go pick them up. However, they come without the original stands. Which the idea of, drives me insane, knowing I'd never find someone just selling the stands.

Does anyone run these speakers with their own stands, or without them at all? What is the impact of using them without stands? I've been dreaming of these speakers for over a decade now, and a pair have finally popped up at a price I can afford.

The bases give a little more support to prevent tipping, but as heavy as they are you'd have to try to tip them over. They also raise the tweeters up to ear-level, which is important on these since they're symmetrical drivers.

I don't like the bases, they take up too much floor area, which is 21 x 34" on my SC-V. I bought two cheap 13 x 20 x 2" concrete pavers from Menards, spray painted them black, and shoved those under my speakers; the height and weight are about the same.

SC-IVs came in 3 versions:

Originals: Morel woofers and Vifa D26TG tweeters. The dual binding posts are angled. These are roughly serial numbers 200 and below. The Morel woofers have foam surrounds and they usually need to be refoamed, if they haven't already.

After approx. 1 year of production, John changed to Vifa woofers, Vifa D27TG tweeters, and improved cabinet bracing. These go up to serial numbers in the 1300 range. Sometime after he changed woofers and tweeters, he also changed binding posts, which are straight-on, not angled. The early binding posts weren't good with spade connections.

I've seen serial numbers into the 270-range that have the new tweeters and woofers, but early angled binding posts. The felt on early models was gray, but black on later models. That seems to have been changed about the same time as the binding posts, around 270 serial numbers.

A few years later the SC-IV/A was introduced, and cost $2000 more per pair. Those have ScanSpeak woofers, even more bracing, and revised crossovers to get the drivers, especially the woofers, to blend better. John almost abandoned the ScanSpeak woofers because they have a nasty peak high up, but he kept coming back to them and eventually got them to work. I've read that the crossovers have over twice as many components than the regular SC-IV models.

Here's a pair of SC-IV which have Vifa woofers and D27TG tweeter, but have the early gray felt and angled binding posts. Serial # 245-A/B. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650079441-dunlavy-audio-laboratories-sc-iv-loudspeaker/

Can I ask what you consider to be a good price? I paid $1650 for my pair, serial # 842-A/B. If you're going to spend anywhere around that, it's best to buy a pair of the later versions with Vifa woofers, Vifa D27TG tweeters, improved bracing and binding posts.

 

[Brent71]

John typically used a thick slab of wood as his "stands". Probably 4-5cm thick, extending out a few cm beyond the speaker edges. Nothing exotic or unique, just a solid base.

The bases are two pieces; the main slab is a few inches wider and deeper than the speakers, and a smaller piece in-between to make them appear to 'float.'

 

[signalpath]

The bases are two pieces; the main slab is a few inches wider and deeper than the speakers, and a smaller piece in-between to make them appear to 'float.'

Good report, thanks. Do you know of anyone making first-order, time-aligned, line-array speakers today?

 

[Brent71]

Good report, thanks. Do you know of anyone making first-order, time-aligned, line-array speakers today?

Duntech is the only company I know of, which was John's company before Dunlavy.

 

[materialbasis]

The bases give a little more support to prevent tipping, but as heavy as they are you'd have to try to tip them over. They also raise the tweeters up to ear-level, which is important on these since they're symmetrical drivers.

I don't like the bases, they take up too much floor area, which is 21 x 34" on my SC-V. I bought two cheap 13 x 20 x 2" concrete pavers from Menards, spray painted them black, and shoved those under my speakers; the height and weight are about the same.

SC-IVs came in 3 versions:

Originals: Morel woofers and Vifa D26TG tweeters. The dual binding posts are angled. These are roughly serial numbers 200 and below. The Morel woofers have foam surrounds and they usually need to be refoamed, if they haven't already.

After approx. 1 year of production, John changed to Vifa woofers, Vifa D27TG tweeters, and improved cabinet bracing. These go up to serial numbers in the 1300 range. Sometime after he changed woofers and tweeters, he also changed binding posts, which are straight-on, not angled. The early binding posts weren't good with spade connections.

I've seen serial numbers into the 270-range that have the new tweeters and woofers, but early angled binding posts. The felt on early models was gray, but black on later models. That seems to have been changed about the same time as the binding posts, around 270 serial numbers.

A few years later the SC-IV/A was introduced, and cost $2000 more per pair. Those have ScanSpeak woofers, even more bracing, and revised crossovers to get the drivers, especially the woofers, to blend better. John almost abandoned the ScanSpeak woofers because they have a nasty peak high up, but he kept coming back to them and eventually got them to work. I've read that the crossovers have over twice as many components than the regular SC-IV models.

Here's a pair of SC-IV which have Vifa woofers and D27TG tweeter, but have the early gray felt and angled binding posts. Serial # 245-A/B. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650079441-dunlavy-audio-laboratories-sc-iv-loudspeaker/

Can I ask what you consider to be a good price? I paid $1650 for my pair, serial # 842-A/B. If you're going to spend anywhere around that, it's best to buy a pair of the later versions with Vifa woofers, Vifa D27TG tweeters, improved bracing and binding posts.

I appreciate this! I saw them up for $1500, they seemed to be the version with the oldest set of speakers, so the one with the morels. They have unfortunately sold before I could get a hold of them. It feels less like I missed out, I don't think it was worth it with the older components and missing bases. I suppose I'll keep on looking!

 

[Brent71]

I appreciate this! I saw them up for $1500, they seemed to be the version with the oldest set of speakers, so the one with the morels. They have unfortunately sold before I could get a hold of them. It feels less like I missed out, I don't think it was worth it with the older components and missing bases. I suppose I'll keep on looking!

The early versions still sound great, it's just that the updated models sounded better. You can read the old review on Stereophile, which also has the 1995 update section. What's weird is that the pic they used in the article shows SC-IV/A (you can tell my the woofer cones), which didn't come out until a few years later, which they also reviewed. https://www.stereophile.com/content/dunlavy-audio-laboratories-sc-iv-loudspeaker

Register on HifiShark if you haven't already, then you can do saved searches and get emails when something pops up.

 

[materialbasis]

Anyone have the PDF manual for the SC-III they could send me? The one site that seems to host it is down. Picked up a pair of SC-III yesterday as I determined these would fit my room much better than the SC-IV. Really enthusiastic about them so far!

 

[materialbasis]

After some more detailed listening, I'm finding some issues with these speakers (SC-III.) Some initial thoughts:

1.) Definitely lacking in the lower end, pushing them back towards the rear wall seems to have helped with this issue a little bit. Are there any subwoofers that folks would recommend to pair with these?

2.) The highs/mids I'm finding to be forward and harsh at times, extremely fatiguing compared to my Goldenear Triton 5 speakers. More of an issue when running my DAC, the Pro-ject PhonoBox S2, less so with my Concept MC/Phonomena ii pre (but still an issue.) They are being powered by a Peachtree Nova150.

They sound so harsh with some voices/guitars that I almost feel like there is something wrong with the mids/tweets. It almost sounds like they are strained at times. If I didn't demo them in another home I would lean more into this being the case, but they sounded great at the house I bought them from. Given, I only took a few minutes to listen.

I'm feeling that maybe the Peachtree Nova150 isn't a good combo with these. Are there recommended amps that are uniformly good with the Dunlavy's? If there is something wrong with these speakers, do folks have any recommended way in which I could check the health of the tweets/mids? Is there a resource somewhere that I can check the driver models used on the SC-III in case I need a replacement?

3.) Transparency, stage and detail are all incredible on these speakers. Even with my less than ideal room (speakers are about 6 feet apart, listening from 10 feet away, toed in to where I can hardly see the inner panel of each speaker), these really shine in this department. I'm hearing even the things I'd rather not hear in recordings. I do feel this leads to these sounding a little clinical.

4.) One of the felt diffusers is missing. There is one pasted on the top and bottom of each tweet, one is missing the top piece. Do folks have any recommendations for replacing this felt? I see some of the material no the inside of the covers, I was thinking about maybe reappropriating the felt on the covers onto the speaker. I'm not sure which glue/adhesive would work best, or if there is somewhere I can buy this exact foam instead.

Despite my concerns with these speakers, I'm really excited to get them sounding right! I've heard them sound incredible in homes that aren't mine, so I know it's either something wrong with my setup or something wrong with one of the drivers themselves. I apologize if any of these questions are rendundant. I've done a lot of reading of existing info but cannot find much info on the SC-III specifically. I'm happy to be pointed to any existing resources or thread, I don't mind doing the reading but just need some direction.

Thanks all! Photo of setup attached for fun.

 

[Brent71]

After some more detailed listening, I'm finding some issues with these speakers (SC-III.) Some initial thoughts:

1.) Definitely lacking in the lower end, pushing them back towards the rear wall seems to have helped with this issue a little bit. Are there any subwoofers that folks would recommend to pair with these?

2.) The highs/mids I'm finding to be forward and harsh at times, extremely fatiguing compared to my Goldenear Triton 5 speakers. More of an issue when running my DAC, the Pro-ject PhonoBox S2, less so with my Concept MC/Phonomena ii pre (but still an issue.) They are being powered by a Peachtree Nova150.

They sound so harsh with some voices/guitars that I almost feel like there is something wrong with the mids/tweets. It almost sounds like they are strained at times. If I didn't demo them in another home I would lean more into this being the case, but they sounded great at the house I bought them from. Given, I only took a few minutes to listen.

I'm feeling that maybe the Peachtree Nova150 isn't a good combo with these. Are there recommended amps that are uniformly good with the Dunlavy's? If there is something wrong with these speakers, do folks have any recommended way in which I could check the health of the tweets/mids? Is there a resource somewhere that I can check the driver models used on the SC-III in case I need a replacement?

3.) Transparency, stage and detail are all incredible on these speakers. Even with my less than ideal room (speakers are about 6 feet apart, listening from 10 feet away, toed in to where I can hardly see the inner panel of each speaker), these really shine in this department. I'm hearing even the things I'd rather not hear in recordings. I do feel this leads to these sounding a little clinical.

4.) One of the felt diffusers is missing. There is one pasted on the top and bottom of each tweet, one is missing the top piece. Do folks have any recommendations for replacing this felt? I see some of the material no the inside of the covers, I was thinking about maybe reappropriating the felt on the covers onto the speaker. I'm not sure which glue/adhesive would work best, or if there is somewhere I can buy this exact foam instead.

Despite my concerns with these speakers, I'm really excited to get them sounding right! I've heard them sound incredible in homes that aren't mine, so I know it's either something wrong with my setup or something wrong with one of the drivers themselves. I apologize if any of these questions are rendundant. I've done a lot of reading of existing info but cannot find much info on the SC-III specifically. I'm happy to be pointed to any existing resources or thread, I don't mind doing the reading but just need some direction.

Thanks all! Photo of setup attached for fun.

1) SVS SB-3000 x2 is what I have. You obviously don't need that much sub, but the DSP & PEQ is nice. Maybe SB-1000 Pro or SB-2000 Pro?

2) I've never had an issue with any of my pairs being harsh. They're very revealing though, and will expose any flaws. Tweeters should be Vifa D26TG-35-06 or D27TG-35-06. The 5" mids are Vifa P13WG-00-08, same as the SC-IV. The woofers, I think, are Vifa P17WJ, the same drivers used as mid-bass in my SC-V.

4) No idea where to find matching felt. I've read that John sourced it from overseas since he couldn't find what he wanted in the U.S. Best bet is to look online for heavy wool felt and cut it to match. 3M spray adhesive should hold it in place just fine.

 

[Ktacos]

I'm feeling that maybe the Peachtree Nova150 isn't a good combo with these. Are there recommended amps that are uniformly good with the Dunlavy's? If there is something wrong with these speakers, do folks have any recommended way in which I could check the health of the tweets/mids?

The amp is fine.

You need a measurement mic to analyze the drivers to see if they're exhibiting any issues.

They sound so harsh with some voices/guitars that I almost feel like there is something wrong with the mids/tweets. It almost sounds like they are strained at times.

I would test the drivers, but this is potentially one disadvantage of first order crossovers, typically the tweeter is run too low. Google tells me the xover point for the tweeter is 2.5khz, if that's accurate and it's first order, you're not even down 10db at 1khz electrically. That is asking quite a bit of these tweeters.

 

[materialbasis]

The amp is fine.

You need a measurement mic to analyze the drivers to see if they're exhibiting any issues.



I would test the drivers, but this is potentially one disadvantage of first order crossovers, typically the tweeter is run too low. Google tells me the xover point for the tweeter is 2.5khz, if that's accurate and it's first order, you're not even down 10db at 1khz electrically. That is asking quite a bit of these tweeters.

I did a few sweeps from listening position and it seems like there is a rise in the higher frequencies overall. I did also change my amplification/source, it did help tone down some of the harshness (to my ears, will test another time.) The lower end I plan to address with a sub. This is the measurement with the new integrated (Arcam Radia 25+). I'm using a Dayton Audio IMM-6C, via HouseCurve, using a the calibration file for my specific mic. I also tested using my iPhone's internal mic, similar pattern just at different db levels. So I'm pretty confident in this measurement, unless both the Dayton and iPhone have terribly fucked up mics.

Would I be able to detect something wrong with the drivers from a measurement from listening position? I ran the same tests using one speaker at a time and they look to be relatively the same, so it wouldn't be an issue with one speaker. Are there other tests I should run?

Speakers are around 6 feet apart, listening position is 10 feet away (I know, not ideal.) Speakers are toed in to where I can hardly see the inner panel.

Attached photo is frequency response at listening position using both speakers.

EDIT: added a comparison between left/right channel. The lighter color is right channel (closer to side wall), darker color is left channel (not near side wall).

 

[materialbasis]

Hi all, I was reading this pretty cool article on time aligned speakers via Vandersteen from a long while back. I see in here it is mentioned that Dunlavy had kept the data of each set of speakers they sold, and the measurements/info on the drivers they hand picked so replacements could be provided if need be. I know Dunlavy is long out of business, but I was wondering if any industry people managed to get a hold of this data? It would be a huge relief for Dunlavy owners that are looking to replace bad drivers, I've linked the article below. I don't really know many people in the industry, but I know people on here oftentimes do.

https://www.vandersteen.com/media/files/APJ%20Files/APJ_6-7r.pdf

 

[signalpath]

Hi all, I was reading this pretty cool article on time aligned speakers via Vandersteen from a long while back. I see in here it is mentioned that Dunlavy had kept the data of each set of speakers they sold, and the measurements/info on the drivers they hand picked so replacements could be provided if need be. I know Dunlavy is long out of business, but I was wondering if any industry people managed to get a hold of this data? It would be a huge relief for Dunlavy owners that are looking to replace bad drivers, I've linked the article below. I don't really know many people in the industry, but I know people on here oftentimes do.

https://www.vandersteen.com/media/files/APJ%20Files/APJ_6-7r.pdf

John indeed characterized each set of speakers he shipped, the documentation was included with each shipment. I doubt you'll find a data base of the data. But every Dunlavy speaker owner should have the test docs.

 

[materialbasis]

John indeed characterized each set of speakers he shipped, the documentation was included with each shipment. I doubt you'll find a data base of the data. But every Dunlavy speaker owner should have the test docs.

I'm unfortunately the 3rd or 4th owner of mine, documentation is long gone. I figure the database is gone entirely but figured it's worth a shot!

 

[Dialectic]

They're an incredible value for the money because so few people want big monoliths in their living rooms, and they're a big hassle to ship. If they were smaller and easier to ship they'd be going for a lot more money. I paid $4000 for my second pair of SC-V, and spent roughly $1000 on a rental van and gas to make the 2100 mile round-trip to pick them up in Irvington, NY. Performance for the price is unmatched, they're just big and a major PITA to ship.

Damn, if I'd known of a pair in Irvington, I would have outbid you! (I'm a 15 min. drive away!)

 

[signalpath]

I'm unfortunately the 3rd or 4th owner of mine, documentation is long gone. I figure the database is gone entirely but figured it's worth a shot!

I saw a press release a few months ago that someone was ressurecting the Dunlavy SC-IV. I emailed them, but got nothing in return.