dunlavy audio vs neumann

[Decimo]

Good morning, I have just signed up, even though I have been following ASR for some time. I would like some advice. I have owned a system with Dunlavy Athena (later, aletha), rowland amplifier and rme adi 2 dac for twenty-five years. For domestic use only, mainly classical music. I wonder if I should update it. In particular, I am thinking of the Neumanns (310, 420, with or without subwoofer), also waiting for the next updates. Would the replacement bring a real and important improvement, or can the system still be considered valid? I thank anyone who wants to answer me.

 

[respice finem]

If you are satisfied with the sound, why bother? The switch to new loudspeakers may not change much sometimes, because the room is a major factor. And, switching to active speakers comes with "a learning curve". BTW, the amp would become redundant.

If you are not quite satisfied with the sound, you might want to play around with the DSP of your RME, using the comfortable "Remote" software:

ADI-2 Remote V 2.0 – we can't stop! (Page 1) — ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series — RME User Forum

ADI-2 Remote V 2.0 – we can't stop! (Page 1) — ADI-2 & 2/4 Pro series, ADI-2 DAC series — RME User Forum —

forum.rme-audio.de

 

[Karmacoma]

The Neumann's would be an improvement over most systems, and except if you're planning to use them in a big room or to listen to pipe organ, would not need a subwoofer. If you have the means to buy the 420s, please yourself really, common sense would be to find a reseller to have a listenning session first, it's quite an investment.

 

[AnalogSteph]

The Dunlavy Aletha looks to be a fairly substantial 3-way floorstander with good horizontal dispersion.

Dunlavy Aletha, Prestige Audio Video 4/2000

The vertical is likely to be a lot more critical, given the fairly widely-spaced twin 6.5" midwoofers and 6 dB crossovers.

Personally, I would want to take some measurements to see how much of a dog's breakfast the vertical really is. (Actually, I would want to take measurements either way - the speaker setup that cannot be improved with some PEQ is quite rare. A nice setup with decent factory 0°+90° calibration should be doable in the low hundreds of $, it doesn't have to involve an Earthworks mic.) Also, after a quarter century the surrounds of all cone drivers should be inspected - are they still soft and supple, or have they hardened potentially to the point of crumbling away? (Good luck getting to the woofer somewhere inside the speaker.)

Speaking of measurements, while the average Rowland amp looks like a piece of kit for those who don't particularly care how much their electricity bill is, asking a Kill-A-Watt for the power consumption of the whole shebang may be quite interesting. (If you need A/C in the summer, you can potentially double the figure then.)

I would think that either KH310s with sub (KH810 II?) or KH420s barefoot (plus MA-1 in each case) should be a worthy replacement. Do note that in-wall mounting is quite arguably preferred for the 310s in particular, as their baffle proportions (a compromise for common use cases) are resulting in some midrange dispersion eccentricities in the horizontal.

 

[Waxx]

The Neumann KH420G is probally better, but in general Dunlavy's are higly rated, still today by people who want a neutral sound and the few measurements show that it's quiet neutral, but it's build long ago and tech moved on. But if they are good enough for you, no you don't have to upgrade, you may. And if you upgrade, that Dunlavy Aletha is worth money, the go now at 2-3K depending on the state on the second hand market (at least here). I just sold one almost mint set (for a friend) a few months ago for 2800€ locally (offline). He bought some JBL 4367 to replace them in his bigger new house.

 

[Decimo]

If you are satisfied with the sound, why bother?

 

[Decimo]

I've always liked Athenas for their very natural, high-end sound, never fatiguing. I got a big improvement with the RME AD2 DAC, which replaced the Rowland preamp, making the sound much clearer and more precise. I have some doubts about the dynamics; also, the bass, which seems to lack punch and depth. I attributed this to the power amp, but when I tried a Krell, contemporary with my Rowland 112, it didn't change anything; in fact, the sound seemed muffled. The highs of my system don't seem very clear to me, and, in general, the instruments don't seem as defined as I hear them in the theater. I tried Genelec 8260s about ten years ago. To my surprise, I found them more coherent and more focused than the Athenas, more precise, more consistent, and with better spatial placement. The instruments were better identified. However, the sound was small, it remained in the monitor window, the bass was deep but weightless, rather unnatural, the whole thing unpleasantly aggressive. Years ago, I gave my son the Neumann 120A. Despite the limitations of the small monitor, the sound of the instruments seems truer, more realistic, and more defined. Perhaps these are the limitations of my amplifier? My room is about 40 square meters with a wide opening onto another room of about 25 square meters.
Unfortunately, I can't test a suitable amplifier. There's no longer a hi-fi store in my city. I can't even test the Neumanns, because no professional equipment retailer stocks them.

 

[kemmler3D]

I would concur with the other comments, the Aletha seems like a pretty competent speaker, but certainly not SOTA by today's standards. The KH420 is an extremely competent speaker, definitely technically superior in many ways. I can't guarantee you'll prefer their sound, but it's likely. I would agree with @Karmacoma , you should at least try to hear them in person, you might think they are fantastic, you might decide to stick with what you have.

edit:

I have some doubts about the dynamics; also, the bass, which seems to lack punch and depth.

The KH420 is noted for its bass performance, so that's good info.

I tried Genelec 8260s about ten years ago. To my surprise, I found them more coherent and more focused than the Athenas, more precise, more consistent, and with better spatial placement.

The Neumanns will certainly be closer to this than the Dunlavys are.

the sound of the instruments seems truer, more realistic, and more defined. Perhaps these are the limitations of my amplifier? My room is about 40 square meters with a wide opening onto another room of about 25 square meters.

Probably not a problem with the amplifier. In general as long as it doesn't have load dependence and it has enough power, the amp simply makes small voltages into big ones, with little-to-no qualitative change.

Based on this comment, I'd say you should give the Neumanns a shot - maybe find someone that sells the 420s with a good return policy. I think you will enjoy them a lot, they're a very powerful speaker, and their response is extremely neutral in the way that you found appealing from the Genelec and KH120.

And welcome to ASR!

 

[respice finem]

Without proper measurement in the given room and setup, anybody's guess is equally good or bad IMHO.
And, in a different room, any loudspeaker will sound different. That's the limitation of hearing at dealerships, fairs, etc.

 

[levimax]

While the room is important don't underestimate humans ability to "hear through the room". High performance speakers like the KH420 are going to sound better than most other speakers regardless of the room.

 

[respice finem]

While the room is important don't underestimate humans ability to "hear through the room". High performance speakers like the KH420 are going to sound better than most other speakers regardless of the room.

I know (which shows a bit in my choice of stuff, see sig). But IMHO it is the rational approach to measure and thus know where the problem lies, instead of just buying something and hoping to solve it "blindly". Even more so, when a DSP is already there, in form of the RME.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[dagfinn]

Duntech has more models, this guy went from ATC to Duntech . Video from his studio, starts when talking about Duntech Princess. He aslo has a smaller version.

 

[Decimo]

Thanks for the replies. I understand the importance of the room, but I don't have the tools or knowledge to gather data. I must point out, however, that I listened to the Genelec 8260s in the same room, alongside the Athena, and I noticed the peculiarities of each, with very clear differences, both for better and for worse. The Genelecs, listened to in other rooms, retained the same characteristics. So the environment, at least in that situation, wasn't a determining factor. Unfortunately, the only way to listen to the Neumanns on site is to order them from Thomann. I imagine that, given their size, shipping, if returned, wouldn't be economical. Has anyone owned the Dunlavy and can share their direct personal experience?

 

[Avp1]

Dunlavy styled speakers are still made by company in Australia (http://duntech.com). Their Senator model is closest to your Aletha. I do not know about their availability in the rest of the world. Also if you want to try classic three way speakers, I recommend to check ATC SCM40. They may have sound pattern which you are looking for. Though I would recommend to add subwoofers to any ATC speakers regardless of their size.

 

[Brent71]

Despite their age, it's pretty hard to get better sound than Dunlavy. I have yet to see another passive speaker that measures as good: flat frequency response, impulse response, step response. You could always find a pair of SC-III and get a pair of good sealed subs, or SC-IV. I was speaking with Geoff Poor the other day, one of the 3 founders of Dunlavy Audio Labs, and he still thinks the SC-III are an absolute bargain, and imaging champs. The SC-IV has better bass, but because of the wider baffle, loses just a touch in imaging, which is my experience as well. My SC-V are even wider yet, and I was worried about imaging, but maybe since they're a 4-way design, they didn't seem to lose anything when it comes to imaging.