Dual SVS SB 3000 or Dual HSU ULS-15 MK 2 For Appropriately Sized Room

[luft262]

Which set of subwoofers would you choose and why?

Thanks!

 

[Willem]

In an earlier post you mentioned your disappointment with your new SB3000s. Many sggested it was not so much the SB3000s that were at fault but your settings. Did you follow up on those suggestions?

 

[luft262]

In an earlier post you mentioned your disappointment with your new SB3000s. Many sggested it was not so much the SB3000s that were at fault but your settings. Did you follow up on those suggestions?

I did. I still have to play with the speaker position, but everything has been tried. I didn't save my graphs, but I can remeasure them pretty quickly. I'll post the current results when I get a chance. It's a little smoother now. I changed the crossover to 100 and the sub distance to 13.5 from 16.5. most of my problems are in the 120hz + range, but that will be harder to fix as I have limited placement options for my speakers.

 

[Willem]

So it is not your subs that are the problem but mostly the in-room response of your main speakers.

 

[luft262]

So it is not your subs that are the problem but mostly the in-room response of your main speakers.

Probably. Graphically that's true, but to my ears it's the lower frequencies that aren't "punching" but maybe I'm decieved.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

You are deceived. You had the Polk psw's which were probably being pushed into distortion or unable to reach the same levels as the sb3000's. Distortion makes things sound louder in sub frequencies and having proper levels makes everything sound more seamless and will sound punchier. If you haven't lowered your sub levels, they are overpowering all of the mid bass and you'll lose a lot of "punchiness"

 

[Slayer]

having proper levels makes everything sound more seamless and will sound punchier. If you haven't lowered your sub levels, they are overpowering all of the mid bass and you'll lose a lot of "punchiness"

Agree with Jdunk54nl. Even if he gets everything dialed in. I think it might be prudent for him to borrow some larger main speakers with 10'', 12'' or 15'' drivers. I just get the feeling what he is looking for, may require larger mains, of course a pair of 18'' subs wouldn't hurt.

 

[Jdunk54nl]

Just for FYI, if I get much over 10db higher on my subs, it starts to impact everything else. This is with near perfect phase match and proper crossovers as measured by rew and smaart.

 

[Willem]

Room modes will make the sound boomy and slow. If you want tight and punchy bass, do something about the room modes. To find out, look at the waterfall graphs from REW.

 

[luft262]

Just for FYI, if I get much over 10db higher on my subs, it starts to impact everything else. This is with near perfect phase match and proper crossovers as measured by rew and smaart.

When I get home I'll post the graphs for natural setup, setup with 100Hz crossover, with 13.5 feet distance, and with PEQ added, all of which improve things. I'm going to experiment with the generic EQ in the AVR for the higher frequencies and moving the speakers a bit. Later when I get rid of our old, huge entertainment center I'll have more room to move speakers.

I think I'm going to keep the SVS subs, because I already turned them down -13dB and they are still running 20 dB or higher than my mains. Plus they give me more features to adjust them and they're smaller, which allows for slightly more placement options. From audioholics review they appear to have less distortion above 40Hz and are equal in output from there up.

For now my next steps are 1. Play with placement of mains, 2. Play with AVR EQ. 3. Get rid of bulky entertainment center to allow for more speaker placement options.

 

[syzygetic]

Ok, so I'm coming a little late to this, but I had a similar debate:
You have $2500 for a pair of subs. What do?

I ended up getting the pair of SB-3000s for my DSP5200.2 main system. They're exemplary.

I had the same 120Hz issues, in my case a crazy null around there. It was a phase issue, and I just used the phase control on the subwoofers to correct it.

The bass is clean and response in my room even to 20Hz, I haven't bothered measuring lower. The real treat is the reduced distortion in the mains, though, so get your levels right, get the crossover right, make sure the phase is matched, and do what EQ you need. You bought the rights subs, or at least you can't blame them against their competition... they're enough!

 

[luft262]

Ok, so I'm coming a little late to this, but I had a similar debate:
You have $2500 for a pair of subs. What do?

I ended up getting the pair of SB-3000s for my DSP5200.2 main system. They're exemplary.

I had the same 120Hz issues, in my case a crazy null around there. It was a phase issue, and I just used the phase control on the subwoofers to correct it.

The bass is clean and response in my room even to 20Hz, I haven't bothered measuring lower. The real treat is the reduced distortion in the mains, though, so get your levels right, get the crossover right, make sure the phase is matched, and do what EQ you need. You bought the rights subs, or at least you can't blame them against their competition... they're enough!

I tried phase at 0 and 180 and didn't see a difference, but I guess I could try other inputs like 90. What about trying one sub at 0 and the other at 180, or would they cancel each other out?

 

[sonitus mirus]

I tried phase at 0 and 180 and didn't see a difference, but I guess I could try other inputs like 90. What about trying one sub at 0 and the other at 180, or would they cancel each other out?

The phase is adjustable from 0-180° in increments of 1°. Do you mean you moved the slider to all positions with no good results, or did you only try 0° and 180°? If so, maybe there is a sweet spot you can find.

 

[luft262]

The phase is adjustable from 0-180° in increments of 1°. Do you mean you moved the slider to all positions with no good results, or did you only try 0° and 180°? If so, maybe there is a sweet spot you can find.

Yeah, I only tried 0 and 180 and tested with umik/Rew. The results were identical.

 

[syzygetic]

I tried phase at 0 and 180 and didn't see a difference, but I guess I could try other inputs like 90. What about trying one sub at 0 and the other at 180, or would they cancel each other out?

I'd play a test signal (pink noise is fine) at a reasonable volume (80dB) with ear protection and watch a live response graph in REW while you mess with the phase control live. It's simple but effective at determining whether the phase helps your null. There may be a more rigorous method, but honestly, this works.

 

[luft262]

I'd play a test signal (pink noise is fine) at a reasonable volume (80dB) with ear protection and watch a live response graph in REW while you mess with the phase control live. It's simple but effective at determining whether the phase helps your null. There may be a more rigorous method, but honestly, this works.

Sounds good. I'll have to Google how to do the live response graph.

 

[Jmm22]

I’d look at Powersoundaudio. Owner is former founder of SVS and makes better stuff for less. Otherwise I’d go with SVS because the warranty is better than HSU.

 

[syzygetic]

Sounds good. I'll have to Google how to do the live response graph.

I use the "Generator" to make the Pink Noise in REW, then I use the "RTA" or "Real Time Analyzer" to get the live data feedback. In this case, I would just not bother with the sweep feature you see mentioned a lot in tutorials online because you're looking for more dynamic data, especially if you play with the phase and the phase does nothing, but then discover moving the mic around the room shows a null some places and not others.

 

[syzygetic]

I’d look at Powersoundaudio. Owner is former founder of SVS and makes better stuff for less. Otherwise I’d go with SVS because the warranty is better than HSU.

I considered PSA too when I made my purchase, and just couldn't get the money to make sense, but SVS was on sale, and PSA wasn't, so sometimes they may be inverted.

Oh, also, PSA was super helpful, and some of their models were running free veneer deals back in November. If you're interested in veneer, this would blow the SVS out of the water, just on woodworking effort alone.

 

[luft262]

I use the "Generator" to make the Pink Noise in REW, then I use the "RTA" or "Real Time Analyzer" to get the live data feedback. In this case, I would just not bother with the sweep feature you see mentioned a lot in tutorials online because you're looking for more dynamic data, especially if you play with the phase and the phase does nothing, but then discover moving the mic around the room shows a null some places and not others.

I'll try out the real time analyzer. I'm not super interested in sweeping the room as 90% of the time plus it's just my wife and I sitting in the middle of the couch.