DT880 vs DT990 (EQ'd)

[a-by]

Hello all,

Lately, I've been enjoying my 600 ohm DT880's. I bought them primarily for gaming, but when EQ'd, they become the most well-rounded headphone I own. The sound fills out, while retaining strong detail and spatiality + all-day comfort.

I watched some Beyer teardowns on youtube, and discovered that all of the OG models (990, 880, 770, TYGR) share the same driver that is tuned differently, internally.

If the driver is identical, would an EQ'd 990 be an upgrade from an EQ'd 880? Since the 990 places less tuning material between the driver and my ear, would that translate to better perceived detail? Does it not work like that?

The oratory preset list shows an identical preference rating for the 990 and 880, once EQ'd:

Beyerdynamic DT990 (fresh earpads).pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Beyerdynamic DT880.pdf

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Thanks!

 

[solderdude]

share the same driver

The drivers are not the same, just like drivers among the AKG 7** series and HD6** and HD5** series are not the same.
They just look the same because they are built on the same chassis so are quite similar but not the same.
Different part numbers as well.

DT880 and DT990 share the same construction and even pads (DT770 has very different pads)
Because of a similar construction and pads and test fixture being used the derived EQ from measurements can result in the same preference rating after EQ.

 

[a-by]

The drivers are not the same, just like drivers among the AKG 7** series and HD6** and HD5** series are not the same.
They just look the same because they are built on the same chassis so are quite similar but not the same.
Different part numbers as well.

DT880 and DT990 share the same construction and even pads (DT770 has very different pads)
Because of a similar construction and pads and test fixture being used the derived EQ from measurements can result in the same preference rating after EQ.

This guy claims the core driver is the same, but acoustically modified between versions. Is he wrong?:

 

[solderdude]

This guy claims the core driver is the same, but acoustically modified between versions. Is he wrong?:

There are mostly differences in front and rear damping as well as pads.
It would have been nice if he exchanged the actual drivers only from the baffles (and the front and rear damping in place) and shown that the drivers are actually the same as well. They could be but he did not prove it. He only showed what was known which is they look alike.

The same can be said for HD600 and HD650 drivers, HD5 series drivers and K701, 701Q, 702, 612 and 712 drivers. They look the same but aren't.

And there is no single D770, DT880 and DT990 there are several different ones including different impedance versions and (silent) revisions as well as spread between drivers.

 

[a-by]

There are mostly differences in front and rear damping as well as pads.
It would have been nice if he exchanged the actual drivers only from the baffles (and the front and rear damping in place) and shown that the drivers are actually the same as well. They could be but he did not prove it. He only showed what was known which is they look alike.

The same can be said for HD600 and HD650 drivers, HD5 series drivers and K701, 701Q, 702, 612 and 712 drivers. They look the same but aren't.

And there is no single D770, DT880 and DT990 there are several different ones including different impedance versions and (silent) revisions as well as spread between drivers.

I understand that, but the core question specifically pertains to the 600 ohm variants of the current production models of the dt990 and 880. Regardless of whether or not we can say the drivers are literally "identical", they are generally regarded to be on a level playing field, as far as technicalities.

I'll generalize further:

Assuming comparable technicalities, could a headphone with an initially worse frequency response wind up sounding better than one with a greater degree of mechanical tuning, when electronically corrected?

 

[solderdude]

When he would have exchanged the drivers (so not the damping) and would have shown on his EARS that the headphones measure the same (within tolerances) then he has proven that the drivers are the same.
It is possible they are because of the substantial difference in performance could be damping only but looking at drivers that look similar is not the same as drivers being the same.
I know for certain that an older 600ohm DT990 driver differs from a more recent 600ohm DT990 driver so one would have to swap drivers between models from somewhat similar production date.
Or contact a technical guy from production to spill the beans.
Order numbers for drivers will differ because when ordering they provide driver+ baffle + damping.

 

[a-by]

When he would have exchanged the drivers (so not the damping) and would have shown on his EARS that the headphones measure the same (within tolerances) then he has proven that the drivers are the same.
It is possible they are because of the substantial difference in performance could be damping only but looking at drivers that look similar is not the same as drivers being the same.
I know for certain that an older 600ohm DT990 driver differs from a more recent 600ohm DT990 driver so one would have to swap drivers between models from somewhat similar production date.
Or contact a technical guy from production to spill the beans.
Order numbers for drivers will differ because when ordering they provide driver+ baffle + damping.

Well, I think it's highly plausible that they are modified versions of the same driver. Can I say it's been definitively proven? No.

But, even if I can't say the drivers are *literally* the same, they are functionally the same. Which is to say, for the listener, any differences between the two is perceived solely along the lines of frequency response. The technicalities are identical.

Assuming we are dealing with the current production models of both, with the same ohm variant, I'm more curious about whether or not an EQ'd 990 could wind up being superior to an 880, than if they are literally using the same driver. Many perceive a greater level of detail when tuning fabric is removed from headphones, so it seems theoretically possible.

I'm getting a horrible feeling that I'll have to buy both to find out...

 

[solderdude]

Assuming we are dealing with the current production models of both, with the same ohm variant, I'm more curious about whether or not an EQ'd 990 could wind up being superior to an 880, than if they are literally using the same driver. Many perceive a greater level of detail when tuning fabric is removed from headphones, so it seems theoretically possible.

Still very possible if the front and rear damping (and or porting) differs. That will make a different correction needed and there can be different resonances/nulls/Q factors because of acoustical differences.
So even if FR would be exactly the same (on a single fixture with same positioning) then and the resultant FR would be similar there can still be differences that could distinguish them.
Here are some measurements comparing TYGR300R to DT990/DT770/880BSE (not smoothed)
Is it the same driver but just differences on front, back, cup, baffle damping and pad differences ?
Is it due to the fact that production date varies too much ?
Pad condition ?
Positioning ?
Room temperature ?

Hard to say. The only thing that would show this is to remove drivers from the enclosures and swap them around to see if the drivers are similar enough to consider them the same or to get real info from someone that actually knows on the production floor. (not managers that think they know or commercial guys in an office).

I once destroyed a driver from a loaner headphone. Fortunately I had a quite different but similar sized driver lying around and with a little tweaking of the rear damping I got those drivers (replaced L and R) to measure and sound identical to the original drivers.
So enclosure and pads and damping are more sound determining than the actual drivers.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

If the driver is identical, would an EQ'd 990 be an upgrade from an EQ'd 880?

As someone that has heard both: no.
The technical characteristics are mostly the same, but damping and housing of the 990 gave it a more "tub" like signature with even more unpleasant highs and muddy bass.
I prefer the 880.

EQ'd, I seriously doubt there is enough of a quality difference between the two to make any notable distinction.

 

[a-by]

Still very possible if the front and rear damping (and or porting) differs. That will make a different correction needed and there can be different resonances/nulls/Q factors because of acoustical differences.
So even if FR would be exactly the same (on a single fixture with same positioning) then and the resultant FR would be similar there can still be differences that could distinguish them.
Here are some measurements comparing TYGR300R to DT990/DT770/880BSE (not smoothed)
Is it the same driver but just differences on front, back, cup, baffle damping and pad differences ?
Is it due to the fact that production date varies too much ?
Pad condition ?
Positioning ?
Room temperature ?

Hard to say. The only thing that would show this is to remove drivers from the enclosures and swap them around to see if the drivers are similar enough to consider them the same or to get real info from someone that actually knows on the production floor. (not managers that think they know or commercial guys in an office).

I once destroyed a driver from a loaner headphone. Fortunately I had a quite different but similar sized driver lying around and with a little tweaking of the rear damping I got those drivers (replaced L and R) to measure and sound identical to the original drivers.
So enclosure and pads and damping are more sound determining than the actual drivers.

Well, for the TYGR, the 990 drivers are officially listed as a replacement part, if you check the website.

As far as I remember, they're a Frankenstein headphone using a 990 driver in a modified 880 housing, with the Custom One headband, and a 177x Acoustic Fleece

 

[markanini]

Put simply, DT880 has nice balanced treble, DT990 has elevated, tiring treble. EQ correction is always effective for lower frequencies, IME sets with treble issues don't EQ as well, or take more effort to EQ well. That's why my recommendation is to stick to DT880.

 

[solderdude]

The driver assemblies for DT700 and DT900 are the same.
Also TYGR and 32Ohm DT990 are the same.
DT770/880/990 assemblies differ.
To determine if the actual driver is the same one would either need to test or know the BOM list of the assembly and see if the part numbers of the drivers in these assemblies are actually the same.