• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

dspNexus DSP Audio Processor - DANVILLE SIGNAL - SHIPPING NOW?

Except that it doesn't have this functionality at all... And measures generally poorly or mediocre at best.
Perhaps you don't understand what an advanced DSP with manual controlling is and what it can be used for. Trinnov would be an AVR that has something similar.
Which functionality is it that it does not have...?

A typical mid range AVR takes in an 8 channel feed (7.1), and has DAC's which convert it to analogue, with pre-outs allowing direct access to those analogue outputs.

DAC quality varies - however most of the better mid range AVR's have SINAD specs that are well beyond the threshold of audibility - so unless they are being used as a step in a DAW processing chain, there is little indication that their DAC's would be audibly better or worse than any stand alone equivalent.

With regard to DSP, their limitations are that they have specific functions, which either meet or don't meet your needs - if what is needed is sophisticated EQ - most current AVR's have this in various differing forms - current Audyssey and Dirac AVR's allow you to specify a target curve in quite substantial detail - and measure the room/speaker beforehand.
If instead you aim to apply a direct EQ with no reference to room/speaker measurements - most of these also have manual EQ capabilities - which vary from brand to brand and model to model - which is to say, the AVR has the DSP capabilities, but the interface is usually tuned to a specific purpose which may or may not meet your needs.

When you say measure poorly or mediocre - what benchmark are you basing this on? - I look at the ASR measurements of the Onkyo RZ50 and Denon X3700/3800/4700/4800 - these are typical mid market AVR's and measure well beyond thresholds of audibility.

Where are you setting the bar, and why?

(Having said all that, I would much prefer all the AVR functionality to be made available via software on a PC, with DSP hardware to provide 7.2.4 output... but as of today that is a bit of a pipe dream!)
 
Last edited:
This is a 2-in/8-out active crossover, and although it has DSP-based EQ, it also has a lot of other stuff that an AVR usually wouldn't - like a FIR coprocessor that runs in parallel so you can do linear phase crossovers that run really fast. A closer competitor would be a DEQX or a Minidsp rather than an AVR. Trinnov has probably got the closest AVR that also does this, but it's also a lot more expensive.

One of the cool features that sets this apart is that the entire things is modular, so that if in a couple years AKM comes out with a new flagship DAC chip, you can swap that out with an upgrade board and don't have to buy a new unit. As I understand it, one of the design goals was to try to make something that can remain in the SOTA performance category for years to come. Whether or not you care about that level of performance is obviously a personal thing, but for me at least, I was willing to fork out a little extra for the new Purifi amps when I'm 99% sure I won't be able to hear a difference next to the older Hypex stuff, and the same goes for the ADC/DAC/DSP components in the dspNexus, which is why it costs a lot more than something like a Minidsp Flex8 which arguably does the same thing.
 
Which functionality is it that it does not have...?

A typical mid range AVR takes in an 8 channel feed (7.1), and has DAC's which convert it to analogue, with pre-outs allowing direct access to those analogue outputs.

DAC quality varies - however most of the better mid range AVR's have SINAD specs that are well beyond the threshold of audibility - so unless they are being used as a step in a DAW processing chain, there is little indication that their DAC's would be audibly better or worse than any stand alone equivalent.

With regard to DSP, their limitations are that they have specific functions, which either meet or don't meet your needs - if what is needed is sophisticated EQ - most current AVR's have this in various differing forms - current Audyssey and Dirac AVR's allow you to specify a target curve in quite substantial detail - and measure the room/speaker beforehand.
If instead you aim to apply a direct EQ with no reference to room/speaker measurements - most of these also have manual EQ capabilities - which vary from brand to brand and model to model - which is to say, the AVR has the DSP capabilities, but the interface is usually tuned to a specific purpose which may or may not meet your needs.

When you say measure poorly or mediocre - what benchmark are you basing this on? - I look at the ASR measurements of the Onkyo RZ50 and Denon X3700/3800/4700/4800 - these are typical mid market AVR's and measure well beyond thresholds of audibility.

Where are you setting the bar, and why?

(Having said all that, I would much prefer all the AVR functionality to be made available via software on a PC, with DSP hardware to provide 7.2.4 output... but as of today that is a bit of a pipe dream!)
The Danville DSP is typically used for active speakers where the functionality for the crossover between drivers is almost endless wih a very powerful Analogue DeviceS processor/DSP. Considerably more powerful than what for example miniDSP offers, and which opens the door for much more functionalities for a speaker designer. It's aimed primarily towards professional speaker designers by the way. The AVR you mention doesn't have anything in that regard and is typically used with passive speakers with the surround format licensing. Two complete different products that can't be compared.

An AVR in the price range generaly measures with very audible distortion. Even the most expensive AVRs aren't considered transparent. I actually have one of the best measuring units myself (a Yamaha processor) and it's simply not transparent and which is easily heard in a quality setup. The Danville DSP will use the very best DAC chips and is likely to measure and sound top notch.
 
It's aimed primarily towards professional speaker designers by the way.
I've received mine, and can definitely confirm this part as I'm coming to grips with learning AudioWeaver. You have full control over the entire DSP process of the entire unit, not just the crossovers themselves. That suits me, but I can see someone non-technical getting pretty overwhelmed. I'll report back later once I get through it all.
 
I've received mine, and can definitely confirm this part as I'm coming to grips with learning AudioWeaver. You have full control over the entire DSP process of the entire unit, not just the crossovers themselves. That suits me, but I can see someone non-technical getting pretty overwhelmed. I'll report back later once I get through it all.
I’m not familiar with Audio Weaver, but can I assume there is at least 8 peq per output, driver timing delay, possibly FIR filtering? Other options ? Thanks for being the Guinea Pig on this product.
 
I've received mine, and can definitely confirm this part as I'm coming to grips with learning AudioWeaver. You have full control over the entire DSP process of the entire unit, not just the crossovers themselves. That suits me, but I can see someone non-technical getting pretty overwhelmed. I'll report back later once I get through it all.
As I am looking to replace my DEQX with this (or more specifically the 4 output version), I doubt if AudioWeaver is more daunting than DEQX's software.

I await your next report with anticipation!!!

Peter
 
I’m not familiar with Audio Weaver, but can I assume there is at least 8 peq per output, driver timing delay, possibly FIR filtering? Other options ? Thanks for being the Guinea Pig on this product.
Oh yeah, it's got tons of functions. It's basically a visual audio-focused programming language. You have all these different blocks that you can chain together into your processing sequence. I'm going to be using FIR, so I'm zeroing in on some of those functions here:

1690850642251.png

You've got FIR upsamplers, FIR downsamplers, faster ones, slower ones, etc, etc. It's a TON of functionality. You can set up your own if-then logic loops in there from what I can tell. Danville gives you some templates to work with, so you don't have to do anything from scratch, more just fill in the parts you care about. I'll post more once I jump in. I'm still just getting familiar.
 
Thanks to all posting info about the DSPNexus. How can I purchase one of these? I emailed Danville but did not get a response. Thanks!
 
I think they get busy and sometimes miss emails. Just give Al a call. They're super easy to talk with over there.
 
Ok, I'm still in the process of building this crossover, but have gotten far enough along where I can speak somewhat intelligently about using the dspNexus, so thought I'd add some comments for you all. I should probably preface this by saying that Danville is still in the "Early Adopter" program with these, and that there will eventually be a lot more resources, etc, to take advantage of. So my journey is probably going to be a bit more involved than someone who comes along in a year.

Anyway:

Look and Feel

You can check out the pics on Danville's site to see what this looks like. Those pics are accurate except you'll get labels on the back for all the ports, etc. (I think they used a prototype model for that). Generally feels very sturdy and well built. I haven't opened it up yet, but will in a few months when they ship out one of the upcoming updates and can snap some pics at that time. I guess some people might like a bit more bling, but bling costs and I think Danville is more concerned about performance than looks, which I can appreciate.

My only complaint hardware-wise is that there's no 12v trigger. Everyone who uses this is going to have a bank of amps sitting there, so it would have been great to allow the dspNexus to manage all of that. I've told Danville, and they acknowledged that a lot of the Early Adopters are saying the same thing, and that they're going to figure something out. I know that everything on this is built in a modular fashion, so we'll see what happens with this piece - I'm really hoping a 12v plug-in shows up with a new backplate at some point. Would definitely make life easier.

Installation

Danville sends over a dropbox folder with a bunch of stuff inside. There are a couple movies you watch, and it shows you what to do. There's a custom Audio Weaver version that works with the dspNexus which you install, then configure some files, replace some DLLs, and install a driver. Takes about 30min if you include watching the vids. No issues. I expect at some point they'll just build an installer that does this part, but it's generally easy.

Audio Weaver

This is the program that you use to build your crossovers. This is a full-fledged audio programming language, and is total overkill for doing just a crossover. Danville uses it to control the entire dspNexus unit, all the way from the inputs to the outputs, and they give you full access to all of this. Just to give you an idea:

1691691808820.png


I can't even fit all of this into one screen. You can go find the DAC blocks and see how they do it, can trace the routing from here to there, etc. It's cool. The part that you need to edit is the crossover region, which I've circled in red. When you click into that, this is what you'll see:

1691691918360.png


Danville has set up an IIR-based 3-way here, so if that matches what you're trying to do, you'd just need to edit the crossover points, the EQ blocks, and the delays to match your own setup. In my case, I'm going with FIR, so I had to delete the IIR stuff and add FIR blocks instead. Note that if you were building a 4-way, then you'd just change the "signal pass thru/monitor" line to match the others, and use that for your 4th output. In the version above, the signal just passes through to those outputs, so you could route them over to a subwoofer that did its own low pass. Or, alternatively, build your own low pass right there in AW just how you like. Super flexible.

Once you're done with your crossover, Audio Weaver builds it, and sends it over to the dspNexus, which is connected to your computer via USB. My connection is a little wonky, so I can only get it to work once out of every four tries or so without throwing an error, which is irritating. I probably have some connectivity parameter set wrong and have to reach out to Danville. (Early Adopter teething issues I guess.)

FIR filters in Audio Weaver

There are two FIR filters that I found useful. The first is just a generic FIR filter. You specify how many taps, and load up the coefficients. What you'd expect. The other one is a long FIR filter, which is a more efficient version that can do longer filters (like 1000+ taps) more efficiently by breaking it down into smaller chunks. I don't get exactly how it works from a technical perspective, but check out Danville's AudioWeaver vids for an example.

Because there are multiple FIR filters available with differing levels of efficiency, the question of "how many taps can this handle?" is sort of a tricky one to answer, because it all depends. When you flash your build over with AW, you can run it on the dspNexus and get stats back, like how much CPU/memory usage your design consumes. In my case, I'm using almost 4000 taps between 6 drivers (left and right speakers together), which comes out to 68.7% CPU. Here's what that looks like right now for my design:

1691703426397.png


If I throw a long filter in there for the woofer instead, CPU drops to 53%, so there's definitely headroom here for another driver. Danville's fall update is going to use a 5th generation SHARC processor, which is even faster, so I don't have any worries as far as running out of taps at this point moving forward.

Measurements

Eventually, the dspNexus will be able to take its own measurements. The hardware is already in place to allow for that. However, they're behind on the software end of this, and I've got no idea how any of it will eventually work. I'm wondering if they plan to release this part once they sort out the RaspberryPi supply chain issues. I think the initial idea was to have some built-in room correction options here. Something to look forward to, but not really an option in the moment.

What this means is that you need a way to measure your speakers. In my case, I've got a Pocket Clio, which I'm pretty happy with. You need something though.

Building the filters

Although AW can implement FIR filters (and IIR too), there's no way to construct any of that in there from a graphical/design perspective. It's more to implement the filters that you already have in hand and know that you want to use. So you need to figure out your coefficients elsewhere. I've used some OEM-specific software before which made all of this very easy, but that won't work with Danville's stuff, so I ended up trying out a couple of programs that were new to me.

The first was rePhase, which I first read about via the tutorials over at minidsp. This is a totally free program that is generously offered to the DIY community. I started here, but quickly became frustrated. You can adjust magnitude and phase independently, but you do that via 16 banks of 16-band equalizers. Basically a crap-ton of EQ on each curve, and you can sort of squish it into the shape that you like if you've got the patience to futz with it. I don't know how anyone manages to correct high frequency phase issues with that. I gave it a couple days, but eventually gave up. I think rePhase is designed more for correcting speakers with passive crossovers rather than building a multi-way speaker from the ground up.

I ended up using Eclipse Audio's FIR Designer, which is pretty amazing. It takes a few tries to get the flow down, but once you understand how that software works, you should be able to build filters to do pretty much whatever you want. (The ones I built start off flat in the bass, then drop off by -3db by 20khz.) I'm sort of bummed that I finished those, because I want to fool around with that software more. :) Anyway, the downside to FIR Designer is that the multiway version is expensive ($500/year), so this is on the opposite end of the spectrum from rePhase. I didn't want to skimp out on crossovers though, since they're arguably the most important part of the whole design, but it does make the dspNexus more expensive, since this part is sort of required if you want to get the most out of the hardware.


Anyway, that's where I'm at. I've still got to get the mic out and run through another measurement session to see how it all looks, and then will probably have to tweak it a few more times until I'm happy. I'll report back once I actually get to listen to this with music.
 
Last edited:
Hi Everyone

I am Al Clark, lead designer of the dspNexus and cofounder of Danville Signal. I am happy to answer questions on this forum, while respecting the forum rules (which someone should clarify for me). Please fill out our contact form if you want to chat with me or members of our staff directly.
 
I am Al Clark, lead designer of the dspNexus and cofounder of Danville Signal. I am happy to answer questions on this forum, while respecting the forum rules (which someone should clarify for me).
If memory serves me correct you should contact a MOD and request a title of technical expert or manufacturer etc so that people can see that.
MODS and Chief Fun Officer
@BDWoody
@AdamG247
@amirm
 
Hi Everyone

I am Al Clark, lead designer of the dspNexus and cofounder of Danville Signal. I am happy to answer questions on this forum, while respecting the forum rules (which someone should clarify for me). Please fill out our contact form if you want to chat with me or members of our staff directly.
Hi, can I load FIR correction filters from Audiolense to the dspNexus?
 
I don't know the specific output file format from Audiolense. FIR coefficient files are in simple text format with each coefficient on a single line. They should be in floating point.
Here is a video: https://danvillesignal.com/aws-3-fir-filters

In the current dspNexus release, FIRs are calculated in the core. There are two types. The Long FIR uses fast convolution (FFT based) for greater efficiency with large FIR filters.

In the next generation DSP module, there is a FIR accelerator. This theoretically does 4 billion MACs/ second independently from the Core DSP processing. This will be the best way for users wanting to do lots or big FIRs. Our early adopters will get a free DSP Module update later this year.

Keep in mind that FIRs have tradeoffs. They tend to be useful at high frequencies, but not so much at low frequencies. For example, if you are sampling at 192,000 and you care about 19.2 Hz, you would need 10,000 taps just to accommodate a signal cycle.

One of the interesting things that FIRs can do is a very good approximation to impulse response correction. This is not possible with IIR filters because you would would need to go back in time. With a FIR, you are delaying the future a bit, to fake it. This is what programs like rePhase do.

Al Clark
Danville Signal
 
In the next generation DSP module, there is a FIR accelerator. This theoretically does 4 billion MACs/ second independently from the Core DSP processing. This will be the best way for users wanting to do lots or big FIRs. Our early adopters will get a free DSP Module update later this year.
Super excited about this part, Al. :cool:
 
Took a few tries, but now have a crossover I'm happy with:

1692999673845.png


Here's the off-axis: (ignore everything under around 200hz)
1693000046786.png

Scratching my head about what's going on deep off-axis at around 8500hz, but otherwise very happy measurements-wise.

Haven't heard music through this yet. First I need to figure out how to convince my wife that all the cables and amps needed to run an active system like this are actually a *good* thing and make the house look better.
 
Why don't just use ADAU1467 as DSP?
 
Any updates from Danville users? Thanks
Yeah, it sounds incredible so far. I'm happy with the performance. I did max out the dsp capabilities on the early-adopter placeholder chip though, so waiting on the upcoming dsp update so I can try and push it a little harder. I'd buy it again.
 
Back
Top Bottom