• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Dspeaker Anti-Mode 2.0

OP
Thomas savage

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
Though I love the technology and it’s great having access to the frequency spectrum Iv taken this box of tricks out.

What’s strange in taking it out is when you run it on bypass so in the system but supposedly doing nothing the sound dose sound bloated and terrible but properly taking it out and unplugging it this simply is not the case.

With the unit in place music lacks natural flow ( lol) and beyond the novelty of having a degree of control over things and a measured improvement in bass response it presents a fee too high sonically speaking. I can’t really explain why it’s worse, it just is... it’s less musical but I know that means nothing in objective terms.

No clue why this is the case, it’s nothing to do with the lack of bass some report after calibrating with the anti mode as that’s easily compensated for with the house curve function. Indeed you can get more with the anti mode in the system only hearing the speakers and not the room so much encourages you to turn up the volume.

Anyway I know non of you are intrested in subjective listening but I guess there’s more to it than meets the eye and a better frequency measurement does not automatically mean it sounds better.

I will try it on the sub I have that’s hiding someplace, unused now for some time. I did enjoy a smoother bass response so maybe I can get that another way.
 

Kal Rubinson

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
5,273
Likes
9,790
Location
NYC
What’s strange in taking it out is when you run it on bypass so in the system but supposedly doing nothing the sound dose sound bloated and terrible but properly taking it out and unplugging it this simply is not the case.
No surprise. There is no real bypass in the Dual-Core since everything passes through its DSP engine. All one gets with the "BYPASS" is the DSP doing its thing with a flat filter.
 

oivavoi

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
1,721
Likes
1,934
Location
Oslo, Norway
What’s strange in taking it out is when you run it on bypass so in the system but supposedly doing nothing the sound dose sound bloated and terrible but properly taking it out and unplugging it this simply is not the case.

With the unit in place music lacks natural flow ( lol) and beyond the novelty of having control a degree of control over things and a measured improvement in bass response it presents a fee too high sonically speaking. I can’t really explain why it’s worse, it just is... it’s less musical but I know that means nothing in objective terms.

I did enjoy a smoother bass response so maybe I can get that another way.

You could try a filtrering/correcting box with a softer/lighter digital footprint. I think the antimode box uses a combination of FIR and IIR filters. There are people who claim that FIR filters are more intrusive and possibly have more artifacts than IIR filters. I can't say anything to the validity of that claim. It seems to me, though, that it's easier to muck things up with FIR filters, unless done really good and thorough like in Acourate for example.

One way of trying out IIR filters for room eq is the driverack units from DBX. I'm using the Venu360 with a digital in - does wonders for the bass, and I don't perceive it to add any artifacts.

Or you could try the multisub approach, to really smoothen out the bass! Also requires some DSP unit of course.
 
OP
Thomas savage

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
You could try a filtrering/correcting box with a softer/lighter digital footprint. I think the antimode box uses a combination of FIR and IIR filters. There are people who claim that FIR filters are more intrusive and possibly have more artifacts than IIR filters. I can't say anything to the validity of that claim. It seems to me, though, that it's easier to muck things up with FIR filters, unless done really good and thorough like in Acourate for example.

One way of trying out IIR filters for room eq is the driverack units from DBX. I'm using the Venu360 with a digital in - does wonders for the bass, and I don't perceive it to add any artifacts.

Or you could try the multisub approach, to really smoothen out the bass! Also requires some DSP unit of course.
Good to know thanks, it was my intention to do it all in the digital domain but there’s no way to take a digital signal out of my TAD and feed it back in .. you can take it out OR feed it a digital signal not do both at the same time.

I’m back to where i was, basically until I go away from playing CD’s to a file based medium I’m screwed in terms of room correction. I’m not intrested in spending thousands again, I’m passed all that. This box was pushing it , it’s just not a road I want to go down anymore.

You can use this unit for subs but I think your stuck With it doing them in isolation rather than as a whole system with your main speakers, I assume that matters in terms of the end result?

I have a hump at 50hz other than that it’s not too bad in my room. .. but it’s annoying !

Edit, I looked at the driverack units.. it’s all balanced, that’s fine with my cdp/dac but rest of my kit is single ended.. I could get a cable terminated with a xlr end.. more ball ache and mess arsing around though lol

The driverack360 unit is affordable and the model down from that is on eBay for £400. Maybe I will borrow a mungrel xlr to rca cable and give it a whirl.

@amirm could send me one for free but unfortunately I’m still suffering the consequences of his beloved dogs liking me more than him... not to mention eating all his favourite pickles and left over kebab .
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,408
Location
Seattle Area, USA
I’m back to where i was, basically until I go away from playing CD’s to a file based medium I’m screwed in terms of room correction. I’m not intrested in spending thousands again, I’m passed all that. This box was pushing it , it’s just not a road I want to go down anymore.

I think the world is telling you it's time to rip those bitches to files.

Also, re: room correction, I've found it best when I don't overtly notice it, much like a subwoofer. If it's blatantly obvious to an inattentive listener it's probably too extreme.
 
OP
Thomas savage

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
I think the world is telling you it's time to rip those bitches to files.

Also, re: room correction, I've found it best when I don't overtly notice it, much like a subwoofer. If it's blatantly obvious to an inattentive listener it's probably too extreme.
Yes, I’d agree, with the last bit.

The world is telling me to fuhgeddaboudit ..
 

oivavoi

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 12, 2017
Messages
1,721
Likes
1,934
Location
Oslo, Norway
Edit, I looked at the driverack units.. it’s all balanced, that’s fine with my cdp/dac but rest of my kit is single ended.. I could get a cable terminated with a xlr end.. more ball ache and mess arsing around though lol

The driverack360 unit is affordable and the model down from that is on eBay for £400. Maybe I will borrow a mungrel xlr to rca cable and give it a whirl.

Concerning the Driveracks, you also need a DBX measurement mic that doesn’t come included in the package, the DBX RTA M. Not too expensive though. Also, one can do adjustments directly on the knobs on the box, but it is 10 times easier using the app, so an iPad or an Android tablet is recommended. The room correction algorithm is exactly the same in the PA2 and the Venu360. The only reason to get the VENU360 is to avoid an extra DAD conversion, and also both the DAC and the ADC in the VENU360 are supposed to be better. If you order everything from Thomann, Driverack, mic and interconnects, you get 30 days money back warranty.

That said, I’m a big fan of simplicity in life... The Vivids are among the best speakers there is, even though they use archaic crossover technology, and if your room is big enough to avoid insurmountable problems in the bass, I would assume that what you have is more than decent.
 
Last edited:
OP
Thomas savage

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
The Anti-Mode is remarkably effective on a sub, in my room it gets a virtually flat response in the operational range of my rell s3. When the music is on I can’t hear the sub at all, that was not the case before and the reason i only used it for a day or two in the past.

But again this technology should be in the sub at least as a optional add on. There’s no draw backs sonically and zero adjustment needed.
 

Kal Rubinson

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 23, 2016
Messages
5,273
Likes
9,790
Location
NYC
The Anti-Mode is remarkably effective on a sub, in my room it gets a virtually flat response in the operational range of my real s3. When the music is on I can’t hear the sub at all, that was not the case before and the reason i only used it for a day or two in the past.
Indeed, there are many subs that do incorporate a decent EQ system. I have both JLAudio and Paradigm subs which do. OTOH, you still need tools to optimally integrate them into the rest of the system.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,073
Likes
16,609
Location
Central Fl
I would think that for $1200 or whatever a DSP unit such as this should be a total full range solution with correction and outputs to control 2 mains and at least 2 subs.
The Audyssey built into my Marantz AV box does an amazing job of integrating the bass response of my dual subs. I'm sure it's far from the best available, I've been looking at possible upgrades, but the end result is pleasing and measures fairly well. Amir's issues with miniDSP aside, I see what I believe would be a more flexible program for less $ albeit minus the automation. Rays kit of miniDSP and Acourate looks very interesting.
Just a Cheapskates POV. ;)
 

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,051
Likes
12,150
Location
London
ROON has EQ built in, as does JRiver , my little RME ADI-Pro 2 , many options become available very you ditch the CD player.
Keith—
 
OP
Thomas savage

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
I would think that for $1200 or whatever a DSP unit such as this should be a total full range solution with correction and outputs to control 2 mains and at least 2 subs.
The Audyssey built into my Marantz AV box does an amazing job of integrating the bass response of my dual subs. I'm sure it's far from the best available, I've been looking at possible upgrades, but the end result is pleasing and measures fairly well. Amir's issues with miniDSP aside, I see what I believe would be a more flexible program for less $ albeit minus the automation. Rays kit of miniDSP and Acourate looks very interesting.
Just a Cheapskates POV. ;)
Iv intergrated my sub and in doing so minimised my previous bass issues ... end of my dsp story. I can’t be arsed buying computers etc

It’s probably out of date, being great 5 years ago but things move on, you can use it for dual subs and technically you can use it full range for your whole system but it would see the mains and the subs as one .

Yes I would of been better off with the cheaper unit that just serves the sub, but then I would of not measured my room and arsed about with all the various settings and learnt a bit.

It’s just a hump in the road, technically I could send it back for a full refund but I feel that’s morally wrong. Alas god prescribes extra drywall duties.
 
OP
Thomas savage

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,298
Location
uk, taunton
The new Dynaudio 18S not only has built-in DSP EQ for adjusting to the room, it also includes presets for crossovers / optimizations for matching Dynaudio studio monitors.
Dynaudio are ace aren’t they, I even follow them on Facebook.

Having ditched my JBL dreams, the new dream is a full dynaudio setup with this sub for the tv room.

That’s a shit load more drywall mud and dust away though.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,440
Likes
632
Thanks for the response, Did you find the Dirac software vastly superior to Audyssey X32?
I concur with Kal. And, we both had to use the Audyssey Pro calibration tool to get Audyssey to perform best. I much preferred Audyssey to no EQ, but Dirac is better in several ways, including features and flexibility, sampling rates handled, as well as subjective sonics. Dirac is also much easier to use, and much faster in doing the calibration. Yet, full Mch Dirac plus mike for my PC cost about the same as just the Audyssey Pro calibration tool, which now seems barely to be on life support.
 

Fitzcaraldo215

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 4, 2016
Messages
1,440
Likes
632
Fitz and Kal, do you use Dirac full range or partial? I stop mine at 200 Hz but did not spend a ton of time quantifying that.
I use Dirac full range with the unmodified, default downward sloping target curve, which is very much in agreement with Toole and Olive. For me, that is measurably better, and sonically way better than no EQ, even above the bass. I also believe that, in a Mch system, using the same target curve full range in all channels (except the sub) provides for better sonic integration.

A friend with Dirac for several years has been tweaking his target curve. When last I checked, he is still constantly tweaking it, using its 4 presets more as a set of tone controls. I hear a difference, but no definite advantage, often a disadvantage, with any of his target curve tweaks. He is, however, a believer in the proposition that if something can be adjusted, then it MUST be adjusted by ear ad infinitum as part of the thrill of being an audiophile. His main speakers are Revel Studio II's, by the way.
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,835
Likes
16,497
Location
Monument, CO
FWIWFM I use Dirac Live full-range but my room is heavily treated so needs some HF boost. That said it is not doing much past about 150 Hz or so (little difference between before and after curves).

I am past the time when I want to tweak endlessly. I did a first set-up over a few hours, then it stayed that way for a few months until I got time to dial in the subs better, then it stayed for years until I switched speakers. Just one session that time and have not touched it since.

Fitz, I have Salon 2's; tell your friend if he'd bought better speakers he wouldn't need to tweak so much. :D (Joke, guys!)
 

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,408
Location
Seattle Area, USA
He is, however, a believer in the proposition that if something can be adjusted, then it MUST be adjusted by ear ad infinitum as part of the thrill of being an audiophile.

Silly audiophiles...if they want to adjust ad infinitum, they should just play back from a DAW and fiddle with the near infinity of plugins available.


 
Top Bottom