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DSP for audio control of Purifi D'Appolito

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#1
Hi!

just planing new HIFI chain for our new home. Plan is to build D'Appolito speakers with Purifi Midsubs 6,5 and Bliesma T34B-4 tweeter. As power amp I will build PURIFI based 4 Chanel Amp. So now some questions to the components before AMP.

The Speakers should be active controlled through a DSP (crossover) that provides alignments for 4 Chanels. A potential DSP's I have found Driverack PA2. Sound nice but it has no volume control. But the software look very good, as well as I can control the DSP through iPad. To the DSP I will connect Mac mini as a ROON Endpoint, also I will connect vinyl to DSP.

So that is the point where I have no idea how to proceed before the power amp.

Has anybody some ideas how?

best regards

Alexander
 

Purité Audio

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#2
Have a look at the MiniDSP range of products, Amir has reviewed their SHD unit.
Keith
 
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Thread Starter #3
I already seen miniDSP SHD, but a I read I cannot control it via iPad and new Mac with M1
 

Purité Audio

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#4
Once the crossovers parameters have been set them the MinidDSP becomes just a black box, you may not need all the functions of the SHD you could look at their small processors 2x4Hd etc.
Keith
 

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#5
I have a comparable setup (Purifi 6.5 midwoofers, but Bliesma T25B tweeters). My first plan was also a MiniDSP SHD with some sort of Hypex or Purifi four channel power amp, but I changed the plan for some Hypex Fusion DSP plate amps because I was able to get some at a very attractive price. Not quite that highend, but I think decent already.

For the setup with separate power amp the MiniDSP SHD is a perfect choice.
 
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Thread Starter #6
I checked the miniDSP products, but don't know how to proceed before DSP, if DSP has no Analog inputs and no volume control.

because I will combine before DSP digital and analog signals

Vinyl/ROON Endpoint - DAC/DSP with volume control - AMP - Loudspeakers

This was the idea. All parameters are clear, except how better combine analog/digital in one DAC/DSP.
 

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#7
The MiniDSP SHD also has some analog inputs. And for the integrated volumio streamer there is also a Roon bridge plugin.
 

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#9
OK, if you plan to use the Dirac room correction of it you might need a windows computer for configuration. When its set up once Dirac runs in the background and does not need a computer any more.
 
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#10
Maybe you can choose a different route, involving software like Audiolense XO, a Mac Mini, and an audio interface of your choice.

Inspired by this thread https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/macos-convolver-that-works-with-audiolense.8030/ here my suggestion:
-- Mac Mini 2020 M1 8GB (I'll be using TightVNC to remote control from a PC (Screen Sharing On))
-- CD/DVD Rw/Rw USB-C (M-DISC Writer) -> To play audio CD
-- Spotify Connect -> app controlled by phone (Android & iOS) to stream music
-- Rogue Amoeba's LoopBack (120 $) -> combine audio source - channel routing
-- Kushview Element (free) -> modular AU/LV2/VST/VST3 audio plugin host
-- X-MCFX-Convolver (free) -> VST2 & VST3 plugin (multi channel convolver)

Finally an audio interface such as Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen or Motu UltraLite-mk4 to drive your amps.

You can setup LoopBack to choose to play through the convolver (outputting to the audio interface) only the apps of your choice.

I apologize for the English which is not my native language.

P.S. my system (under construction) will be also a D'Appolito with two Purifi 6.5" in a sealed/cardioid config plus a Bliesma T34B-4 but I'm thinking of a three-way speaker...

Regards,
Roland
 
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Thread Starter #11
Maybe you can choose a different route, involving software like Audiolense XO, a Mac Mini, and an audio interface of your choice.

Inspired by this thread https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/macos-convolver-that-works-with-audiolense.8030/ here my suggestion:
-- Mac Mini 2020 M1 8GB (I'll be using TightVNC to remote control from a PC (Screen Sharing On))
-- CD/DVD Rw/Rw USB-C (M-DISC Writer) -> To play audio CD
-- Spotify Connect -> app controlled by phone (Android & iOS) to stream music
-- Rogue Amoeba's LoopBack (120 $) -> combine audio source - channel routing
-- Kushview Element (free) -> modular AU/LV2/VST/VST3 audio plugin host
-- X-MCFX-Convolver (free) -> VST2 & VST3 plugin (multi channel convolver)

Finally an audio interface such as Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen or Motu UltraLite-mk4 to drive your amps.

You can setup LoopBack to choose to play through the convolver (outputting to the audio interface) only the apps of your choice.

I apologize for the English which is not my native language.

P.S. my system (under construction) will be also a D'Appolito with two Purifi 6.5" in a sealed/cardioid config plus a Bliesma T34B-4 but I'm thinking of a three-way speaker...

Regards,
Roland
Sorry, but I can not follow your ideas fro 100%

- MacMini is clear for me. I can use it as a streamer for Tidal, Spotify act. connecting through USB C to Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen.

- Rogue Amoeba's LoopBack (120 $) -> combine audio source - channel routing
-- Kushview Element (free) -> modular AU/LV2/VST/VST3 audio plugin host
-- X-MCFX-Convolver (free) -> VST2 & VST3 plugin (multi channel convolver)

is not really clear to me how to use or better say, for which case I should use it

- where I can set up the crossover parameters for the speakers (Midsubs and tweeter). In the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen?
- Do I get from Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen the 4 Channels for the 4 Chanel AMP

I Stink the idea sounds nice and practicable but I do not understand it
 
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#12
Sorry, but I can not follow your ideas fro 100%

- MacMini is clear for me. I can use it as a streamer for Tidal, Spotify act. connecting through USB C to Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen.

- Rogue Amoeba's LoopBack (120 $) -> combine audio source - channel routing
-- Kushview Element (free) -> modular AU/LV2/VST/VST3 audio plugin host
-- X-MCFX-Convolver (free) -> VST2 & VST3 plugin (multi channel convolver)

is not really clear to me how to use or better say, for which case I should use it

- where I can set up the crossover parameters for the speakers (Midsubs and tweeter). In the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen?
- Do I get from Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 3rd Gen the 4 Channels for the 4 Chanel AMP

I Stink the idea sounds nice and practicable but I do not understand it
In the above example, the crossover and room correction has to be configured using Audiolense XO (you can find a very well-written tutorial by Mitch "mitchco" Barnett here).

Using Spotify Connect you can use the app installed in your mac mini (or Windows PC) as a streamer which is driven by your phone app...
The same with the upcoming Tidal Connect...

Rogue Amoeba's LoopBack is the tool that can be configured to route only Spotify (or Tidal when they release the updated version) to an audio plugin host like Element which can load a multi-channel convolver like X-MCFX (to be configured loading the appropriate filter calculated by Audiolense).
A free alternative to route audio between apps is BlackHole from existential audio.

By doing this you can avoid system-level sound going through your main speaker (because they can go to the default system speaker).

To change or reconfigure your system you can connect remotely from another PC or Tablet using something like RealVNC (before doing this you have to enable the "screen sharing" option in your Mac using a monitor and a keyboard).

I recommend you again to visit and read this thread (that I've used to elaborate my plan):
https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/macos-convolver-that-works-with-audiolense.8030/

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Roland
 
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Thread Starter #13
In the above example, the crossover and room correction has to be configured using Audiolense XO (you can find a very well-written tutorial by Mitch "mitchco" Barnett here).

Using Spotify Connect you can use the app installed in your mac mini (or Windows PC) as a streamer which is driven by your phone app...
The same with the upcoming Tidal Connect...

Rogue Amoeba's LoopBack is the tool that can be configured to route only Spotify (or Tidal when they release the updated version) to an audio plugin host like Element which can load a multi-channel convolver like X-MCFX (to be configured loading the appropriate filter calculated by Audiolense).
A free alternative to route audio between apps is BlackHole from existential audio.

By doing this you can avoid system-level sound going through your main speaker (because they can go to the default system speaker).

To change or reconfigure your system you can connect remotely from another PC or Tablet using something like RealVNC (before doing this you have to enable the "screen sharing" option in your Mac using a monitor and a keyboard).

I recommend you again to visit and read this thread (that I've used to elaborate my plan):
https://www.avnirvana.com/threads/macos-convolver-that-works-with-audiolense.8030/

I hope this helps.

Regards,
Roland

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I also checked the links and studied in detail al possibilities described in the links. In such a way, I see no possibility to play music also with a turntable. an this is the main point to combine analog and digital. My plan was to set up a chain as follows
 

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jtwrace

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#14
You might want to check out my interview with Mitch:

 
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Thread Starter #15
Maybe you can choose a different route, involving software like Audiolense XO, a Mac Mini, and an audio interface of your choice.

Roland
now I understood the chains with convolved and Audio-Interface, but their is a small fact that Audiolense is only working on Windows.

Original from Audilonse site:

You need a Windows PC and a microphone hooked up to your system to measure your speakers and generate correction / crossover filters, and you either need a PC (not necessarily with Windows) or OpenDRC in your playback chain to use the filters. Other hardware solutions with capability to process FIR filters may also be compatible. Ask us if you’re in doubt.
 
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Thread Starter #16
anyway, if I use Motu UltraLite-mk4 as an audio interface, I have to put my crossover FIR filters via Audiolense in my Mac. Than the Mac send through a multichannel-convolver the signals with the indicated frequency to the Motu interface channels, and from Motu signal goes to amps.

So now the question is, if I connect an phono preamp to the Motu interface, do I need the Mac for crossovers or can I set up crossovers also at the Motu, so that I can run truntable through Motu without Mac is on.
 
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#17
Thank you for the detailed explanation. I also checked the links and studied in detail al possibilities described in the links. In such a way, I see no possibility to play music also with a turntable. an this is the main point to combine analog and digital. My plan was to set up a chain as follows
If I'm not wrong, you can setup Loopback to route multiple sources to the same input, like in your example, a soundcard ADC input plus a streaming service app routed at the same time to your convolver app.
Is your responsibility to play one source at a time.

1614963283055.png
 
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Thread Starter #18
just checked some info about AUDIOLENSE and ACOURATE

at ACOURATE I found a lot of information about possible XO filters:

- Butterworth
- Linkwitz-Riley
- Neville-Thiele
- Bessel links
- Bessel rechts
- Horbach-Keele
- sinc-Filter
- RIAA/Deemphasis-Filter

at AUDIOLENSE I didn't found any info about possible XO filters, may any help
 
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#19
just checked some info about AUDIOLENSE and ACOURATE

at ACOURATE I found a lot of information about possible XO filters:

- Butterworth
- Linkwitz-Riley
- Neville-Thiele
- Bessel links
- Bessel rechts
- Horbach-Keele
- sinc-Filter
- RIAA/Deemphasis-Filter

at AUDIOLENSE I didn't found any info about possible XO filters, may any help
IIRC Audiolense used a proprietary filter topology, here a quote from Bernt Ronningsbakk (the creator of Audiolense) in the old Audiolense User Forum:
"The filters are not based on any of the typical suspects. They are
completely in-house design, and the design criteria was to optimize the time
domain behavior for any given steepness. All the traditional alignments are
based on what can be done with a handful of resistors, capacitors, and
inductors. This makes a lot of sense in the analog world but not in the
digital domain. The filters are typically very shallow towards the x point
and very steep towards the stopband. This gives superior behavior compared
to classical alignments.
"

To clarify further my point of view I'm a first-time fan of Acourate from AudioVero, which is very advanced and very powerful but in the end, I prefer the simplicity of Audiolense which looks much more approachable.

In the end, is your choice, you can find online reviews of both and judge by yourself.

P.S. if you want a step-by-step tutorial with a background in Acoustic and DSP I think the book "Accurate Sound Reproduction Using DSP" from Mitch Barnett is a must to have.

Good luck,
Roland
 
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