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DSP - does it defeat the object of expensive analogue sources?

JJB70

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Really?

Everyone I know under 35 is buying Sonos, Apple Homepod, Alexa, etc.

They don't even own amps, except maybe for headphones.

I visit very, very few friends or households nowadays which have hi-fi-systems, they may have a BT speaker or in many cases use a TV sound bar if they want to listen to music. At work my colleagues think I am some sort of fossilised relic for still having an interest in hi-fi. If I visit department stores and high street electrical retailers they sell BT speakers and maybe a few token table top radios, yet 20 years ago these shops sold some pretty decent hi-fi systems and separates. The flip side is that expensive headphones are everywhere now. The audio market has moved to a combination of monaural BT speakers and headphones I think. I recently recommended to a few people that they buy a pair of KEF X300A speakers as they are going cheap now and urinate all over the sort of BT speakers sold in the High Street but the Bose marketing had done its work and they knew that nothing could possibly be as good as a Bose BT speaker.
 

watchnerd

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I visit very, very few friends or households nowadays which have hi-fi-systems, they may have a BT speaker or in many cases use a TV sound bar if they want to listen to music. At work my colleagues think I am some sort of fossilised relic for still having an interest in hi-fi. If I visit department stores and high street electrical retailers they sell BT speakers and maybe a few token table top radios, yet 20 years ago these shops sold some pretty decent hi-fi systems and separates. The flip side is that expensive headphones are everywhere now. The audio market has moved to a combination of monaural BT speakers and headphones I think. I recently recommended to a few people that they buy a pair of KEF X300A speakers as they are going cheap now and urinate all over the sort of BT speakers sold in the High Street but the Bose marketing had done its work and they knew that nothing could possibly be as good as a Bose BT speaker.

Pretty much matches my experience, as well, with an odd placement of vinyl here and there in the mist of it all:

The-Sixes-Hero-1.jpg
 
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babysnake

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Compare them all under tightly bias controlled blind listening conditions

The latent scientist within me loves the idea of blinded randomised control trials

Practically I guess that's a bit challenging though! Is anyone aware of any published data to support this ? Does anybody do this stuff in any way rigorously?

It seems, I don't know, depressing I suppose to accept that a <£200 Chinese no-name DAC might sound the same as a dCS or a Weiss :confused:
 
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babysnake

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But, yeah, most of the Millenials don't seem to have hifi rigs, either, or even aspire to them.

My millennial son has full access to my system and hardly ever plays it!

He was amazed at the sound quality uplift when I gave him an external DAC for his phone (although I suppose that shouldn't have made any difference ;)) and makes all the right "ooh" and "aah" noises when I play home something through the big system, but seems distinctly disinclined to pursue the hobby

I look at adverts for "top end" kit sometimes, speakers especially, and I really do wonder how these companies survive as they can't be moving very many units
 

Purité Audio

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The latent scientist within me loves the idea of blinded randomised control trials

Practically I guess that's a bit challenging though! Is anyone aware of any published data to support this ? Does anybody do this stuff in any way rigorously?

It seems, I don't know, depressing I suppose to accept that a <£200 Chinese no-name DAC might sound the same as a dCS or a Weiss :confused:
It is a bit of a hoo -haw to compare really accurately level matched and unsighted but extremely revealing,
https://www.puriteaudio.co.uk/single-post/2017/02/08/Level-matching-for-fun
Keith
 

watchnerd

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For those with no fear of DSP, I give you the Pro-Ject Essential II Digital Turntable:

project-essential-II-digital_1800x.jpg


Just seeing the word Digital printed on a turntable is going to lead to some freak outs.

https://www.turntablelab.com/produc...MIjZLChafP3gIVFcpkCh3jqwQHEAQYASABEgJtJ_D_BwE

"The Essential II DIGITAL is an upgraded Essential II with an optical output and built-in phono preamp. The optical output has been added as many next generation soundsystems (Sonos, Heos, most soundbars) feature optical inputs (also allowing you to bypass the lesser quality AUX input). "

So, yeah, the future appears to be mono, wifi-ready soundars and smart speakers....attached to vinyl if you're a baller.
 
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My millennial son has full access to my system and hardly ever plays it!

He was amazed at the sound quality uplift when I gave him an external DAC for his phone (although I suppose that shouldn't have made any difference ;)) and makes all the right "ooh" and "aah" noises when I play home something through the big system, but seems distinctly disinclined to pursue the hobby

I look at adverts for "top end" kit sometimes, speakers especially, and I really do wonder how these companies survive as they can't be moving very many units

As a millennial, I wish I had access to a HiFi system at home! Since I'm a student living with relatives I just stick with headphones for now.

I'm quite looking forward to moving out in a year or two, so I can begin the journey of building a living room system. Nothing too crazy in the beginning, perhaps a pair of KEF LS50 with cheap power amplifiers, Adam A7X or similar class to get started.
 

Wombat

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As a millennial, I wish I had access to a HiFi system at home! Since I'm a student living with relatives I just stick with headphones for now.

I'm quite looking forward to moving out in a year or two, so I can begin the journey of building a living room system. Nothing too crazy in the beginning, perhaps a pair of KEF LS50 with cheap power amplifiers, Adam A7X or similar class to get started.

That sounds good. Ease into it.

Stay with ASR and it doesn't have to cost a fortune.
 

Sal1950

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And here is the Forbes review of it:
I would never consider a TT that didn't have some form of auto-lift at end of record so I didn't have to
scurry across the room every 20 minutes. It's so easy to design-include a manual system without sonic
issues, I just don't understand it.
 

watchnerd

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I would never consider a TT that didn't have some form of auto-lift at end of record so I didn't have to
scurry across the room every 20 minutes. It's so easy to design-include a manual system without sonic
issues, I just don't understand it.

I can't think of a single audiophile approved table that has that.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the cigar class doesn't seem to like them. Probably as much to do with cottage industry vs big electronics manufacturing as anything.
 

watchnerd

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The recent email advertising I got from Nest (we have their thermostat) highlights all of their smart connected homes stuff and (what appears to be) wireless vinyl:

unnamed.gif
 

Sal1950

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I can't think of a single audiophile approved table that has that.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but the cigar class doesn't seem to like them. Probably as much to do with cottage industry vs big electronics manufacturing as anything.
I know, and it's that type of thinking that completely separates me from the vinyl crowd. I put a little device similar to the Q UP on my AR XB back around 1974 and it is still working for the guy I gave my XB to he still uses it today. I can't for the life of me understand why now in the second decade of the 21st Century, anyone would pay 5 to 7 digits for a turntable that makes you run across the room every 20 minutes to restart things. o_O
Nope that's something I just don't get. In a manner of a minute or so I can put together a playlist of my desired music for the next 3-4 hours and just kick back and groove.
I do drive a stick shift though, won't have anything else. LOL
 

Wombat

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An audiophile dilemma:

 

restorer-john

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An audiophile dilemma:

An abomination in my opinion.

I sent my Thorens TD-160 and TD-145 to my Dad's house to play with. He's not a big fan of the floaty suspension decks either.

I've got the perfect one for Sal, a drawer loading, both sides play, twin linear tracking arms and fully random track programmable Sharp/Optonica RP-117. Opens like a CD player, has twin optical sensors that scan both sides to determine the track positions.

Like this (not my pic)

rp-117.JPG


They are fun and games to repair, I picked up a number of them back in the day at garage sales and tip shops including the model below it with no programming. Two belts and a cracked gear are the common issues. Uses a special Audio Technica dual magnet stylus with a gap to allow the IR track reading bean to shine through and reflect back.

They can play hideously warped records that no other turntable in my collection can. Due to the overhead (and underhead) mounted, very short linear tonearms.
 
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Wombat

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An abomination in my opinion.

I sent my Thorens TD-160 and TD-145 to my Dad's house to play with. He's not a big fan of the floaty suspension decks either.

I've got the perfect one for Sal, a drawer loading, both sides play, twin linear tracking arms and fully random track programmable Sharp/Optonica RP-117. Opens like a CD player, has twin optical sensors that scan both sides to determine the track positions.

Like this (not my pic)

View attachment 18091

They are fun and games to repair, I picked up a number of them back in the day at garage sales and tip shops including the model below it with no programming. Two belts and a cracked gear are the common issues. Uses a special Audio Technica dual magnet stylus with a gap to allow the IR track reading bean to shine through and reflect back.

They can play hideously warped records that no other turntable in my collection can. Due to the overhead (and underhead) mounted, very short linear tonearms.

Ah, a fellow tip-rat, at least before the Contract Recyclers used OH&S to keep us out. Amateur only, of course.

(Tip-rat = rubbish dump/land fill scrounger).
 

watchnerd

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I know, and it's that type of thinking that completely separates me from the vinyl crowd. I put a little device similar to the Q UP on my AR XB back around 1974 and it is still working for the guy I gave my XB to he still uses it today. I can't for the life of me understand why now in the second decade of the 21st Century, anyone would pay 5 to 7 digits for a turntable that makes you run across the room every 20 minutes to restart things. o_O
Nope that's something I just don't get. In a manner of a minute or so I can put together a playlist of my desired music for the next 3-4 hours and just kick back and groove.
I do drive a stick shift though, won't have anything else. LOL

What kind of motorcycle transmission?
 
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