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DSD is it of any value

NTomokawa

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can I start laughing? many? :D:) OMG! define many!
See that's the thing when some people say that SA-CD sounds "better". In every case it is because the program material is better recorded and/or (re)mastered. It has nothing to do with medium or format. None at all.

Hence why I asked whether such high-quality recordings are also available in PCM. Because if they are in DSD only, then I have to say that it's only about money.

Which, I guess this being a capitalist society, is valid...
 

Kal Rubinson

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See that's the thing when some people say that SA-CD sounds "better". In every case it is because the program material is better recorded and/or (re)mastered. It has nothing to do with medium or format. None at all.
Of course.
Hence why I asked whether such high-quality recordings are also available in PCM. Because if they are in DSD only, then I have to say that it's only about money.
Why? If they were recorded in DSD, why should they not be issued in DSD? If you want to play them in PCM, you can. I generally do.
 

NTomokawa

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Why? If they were recorded in DSD, why should they not be issued in DSD? If you want to play them in PCM, you can. I generally do.
Wouldn't that involve the need to use different filters? And of course there's potential clipping issues.
 

majingotan

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Wouldn't that involve the need to use different filters? And of course there's potential clipping issues.

Foobar2000 has built-in FIR filters for this purpose and you can set the sample rate for the PCM will convert too as well. In my experience, there’s essentially no clipping at all
 

Robin L

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If you've got SACDs and a SACD player, the utility of DSD is obvious. And I do. Also, if one has a surround system, the format with the most 5.1 discreet issues is SACD. GIGO, obviously, but the SACDs I own tend to be of high quality recordings with good mastering. And, yes, it's possible for bog standard Redbook to sound great, but the batting average of SACDs happens to be higher.
 

pozz

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Is this also true of recordings made using DXD and converted to DSD only for distribution?
DXD is a marketing name for 24bit 352.8kHz PCM, developed to reduce the amount of noise after converting to DSD. How much of a difference it makes, I don't know. All the noise is ultrasonic in any case. My only issue with these formats is that I'm not in favour of the trade-off when it comes to musical fidelity from an archival standpoint.
 

oog747

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If you've got SACDs and a SACD player, the utility of DSD is obvious. And I do. ...

Like the hole post. Have my own thoughts about why I like DSD, but question below:

... Also, if one has a surround system, the format with the most 5.1 discreet issues is SACD. ...

Would you be able to elaborate more on 5.1 issues with SACD comparing to other formats for educational purposes? Didn't compare much, but Roger Water's "Perfect Sense (Parts I and II)" on Sony promo SACD in multi-channel to me sounds way better than multi-channel version in "Amused to Death" Blu-Ray Audio in the same environment. Just mastering?
 

DonH56

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I think he meant "issues" as in releases (issues) of discs with multichannel sound.
 

Robin L

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Kal Rubinson

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Wouldn't that involve the need to use different filters? And of course there's potential clipping issues.
Different from which? The conversion process is topologically the same whether the recording company does it or the user does it. I find the SoX conversions of DSD to PCM to be indistinguishable.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Would you be able to elaborate more on 5.1 issues with SACD comparing to other formats for educational purposes? Didn't compare much, but Roger Water's "Perfect Sense (Parts I and II)" on Sony promo SACD in multi-channel to me sounds way better than multi-channel version in "Amused to Death" Blu-Ray Audio in the same environment. Just mastering?
I have no personal experience with these but I question whether one can use the term "better" in anything but a personal sense when dealing with synthesized, remastered creations.
 

Robin L

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I have no personal experience with these but I question whether one can use the term "better" in anything but a personal sense when dealing with synthesized, remastered creations.
Maybe it was my lack of clarity. My point (that confused oog747) is that it's easier to find 5.1 releases on SACD than in other formats.

A side note. Managed to find a DVD audio of Beck's Guero, a production conceived as a surround mix. Due to the complexity of the mix (I'm guessing), playing back the 5.1 mix with its on the fly video mix, this disc would glitch in a few songs. The solution was to play the Dolby surround mix, no more hang-ups.
 

DuxServit

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Does anyone know if the primary consumer market for DSD/SACD discs is the country of Japan?

I’m noticing that both ECM Records and Deutsche Grammophone (DGG) have re-issues on SACD that are available only in Japan. Shops in the US have to import from there.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Maybe it was my lack of clarity. My point (that confused oog747) is that it's easier to find 5.1 releases on SACD than in other formats.
My point is the same.
 

oog747

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I have no personal experience with these but I question whether one can use the term "better" in anything but a personal sense when dealing with synthesized, remastered creations.

Kal,

That is exactly as I was carefully trying to convey with my, as we now know, limited language abilities - it sounds better to me.
 

dtaylo1066

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It remains to be seen if Hi-Rez (to blur things even more) formats will survive or if redbook will remain the future standard. Given that storage space becomes cheaper every year and file transfer speeds increase, the argument around file size or download woes is a fleeting one.

Most consumers don't even listen to lossless files, but listen to compressed streaming files. If I asked any of my many co-workers under the age of 40 to tell me what DSD or 24/96 meant, they would be clueless. They love Spotify. They have grown up on earbuds and compressed music files. My son is age 30 and has rarely in his life listened to music through speakers, even though there have been two high quality stereo set ups in the house during his lifetime.

So, for the moment, Hi-Rez is mostly a thing for audiophiles -- or whatever you would like to call us. In my life I can recall how utterly ****** cassette tapes and 8-track tapes sounded, yet a crapload were sold for several decades. Mostly for use in autos or out of convenience. Many folks had no clue as to their inferior sound and couldn't care.

I am not sure how well my now 64-year-old ears are able to differentiate between formats, but I am happy to adapt to a format if it delivers sonic benefit in scientific measurement as well to my ears. I need a new DAC and I figure I might as well buy one that is good for the upper limits of PCM and DSD, maybe even with MQA. Who knows what will prevail and you can get coverage for them all in $300-$600 DACS.

40 years ago I never envisioned the turntable and vinyl becoming obsolete. After near extinction, records and their players are somewhat back, but it is more a thing than a audio movement. Talk about file size, 300 records take up a crap load of real estate vs. a tiny $100 hard drive.

DSD vs PCM. It will play out and consumers will decide. At what point does a flat screen TV's resolution no longer matter? I am not sure, I just know that each time I buy a TV it looks better to me.
 
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Mnyb

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Is this also true of recordings made using DXD and converted to DSD only for distribution?

Yes DXD is a pcm format its 24bit 352.8kHz so you do your production in PCM or Analog, you really can’t do anything at all in DSD
 
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