Dr. Toole's 4th Edition Book is Coming! (Discount)

[MStan]

I'm not necessarily disagreeing, it's just interesting given that we have 50 page long threads on this forum about the opposite being true (stereo subs being the way to go). And as you mentioned your description of the change was a bit over the top, which is why I replied initially. Soundstage and imaging doesn't fall apart with stereo subs.

Well, 50 page long threads is not an argument. There are longer threads on the internet about whether cats are smarter than dogs. I didn't say my description was over the top; I said it may have been because of bias. I think in my case soundstage and imaging did fall apart to a noticeble degree. I speculate that there may be a psycho acoustic vs physical phenomenon going on such that any unnatural imbalance in the bass region, however small, causes the brain to process the whole signal including the upper range as wrong.

The bass region is a foreign land. Strange things happen there. But thanks to Toole et al it is less strange now.

 

[MStan]

uh-oh. me too. this is news to me. i run two 10” dual-opposed subs in stereo. I feed them from two minidsp plate amps, one left, one right. is that what i need to change?

Make sure the source signal feeding the plate amps is a summed mono signal.

 

[MStan]

Wouldn't the output level of an individual sub in mono pair would tend to be higher than the same sub in a stereo pair?

If so, couldn't that alone spark a perception of 'better', when switching from stereo to mono?

Yes, by about 6dB. That is why you typically lower the gain by 6dB when you create a summed L/R mono signal. That is what I did as well as releveled the sub gain with the mains before comparing the stereo vs mono sub feeds. Same as you do when comparing speakers or electronics - you equalize the gain so it is not a factor.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Well, 50 page long threads is not an argument. There are longer threads on the internet about whether cats are smarter than dogs. I didn't say my description was over the top; I said it may have been because of bias.

Sorry for misquoting you, that was all me then.

I think in my case soundstage and imaging did fall apart to a noticeble degree. I speculate that there may be a psycho acoustic vs physical phenomenon going on such that any unnatural imbalance in the bass region, however small, causes the brain to process the whole signal including the upper range as wrong.

The bass region is a foreign land. Strange things happen there. But thanks to Toole et al it is less strange now.

Yes, the benefits of multiple subs in mono are relatively well known. The potential benefits of stereo subs (and our ability to localize at the low frequencies) have less ground in reliable studies, and are somewhat inconclusive.

 

[suttondesign]

Make sure the source signal feeding the plate amps is a summed mono signal.

Yup, looks like my MiniDSP plate amps do exactly that as an option.

 

[robile5]

Probably went under the radar, as most of you already have the book, but for those who do not, there currently is a 20% store wide discount, until the end of the month.

 

[RicD]

Probably went under the radar, as most of you already have the book, but for those who do not, there currently is a 20% store wide discount, until the end of the month.

I just ordered it for $63. There was a place for an additional discount code, but I wasn't aware of any. I think the $63 with free shipping is already discounted.

 

[SSS]

Did anybody read the 4th edition and compared it to the 2008 released book? Is in the 4th-ed really new stuff with new measurements in it?

Viewing some recent presentations from Dr. Toole on youtube I recognized that much of the content is based on history as of 1986 and so. Of course it is his life as a professional at Harman. Much what he says it true and he is a serious clever person as far I can recognize this. Anyway, regarding perceived sound quality he refers to flat f-response and least resonances in an non-echoic room. But this can not be all what influences the sound. Less is told about construction of speaker chassis and the so called box. But this may out of the intentional scope for his book.

 

[Floyd Toole]

Did anybody read the 4th edition and compared it to the 2008 released book? Is in the 4th-ed really new stuff with new measurements in it?

Viewing some recent presentations from Dr. Toole on youtube I recognized that much of the content is based on history as of 1986 and so. Of course it is his life as a professional at Harman. Much what he says it true and he is a serious clever person as far I can recognize this. Anyway, regarding perceived sound quality he refers to flat f-response and least resonances in an non-echoic room. But this can not be all what influences the sound. Less is told about construction of speaker chassis and the so called box. But this may out of the intentional scope for his book.

The 4th edition is very different from the 2008 1st edition, covering new material and with a website adding more material and slide shows. BTW most of the hard core research was done in Canada while I was at the National Research Council, which is why I was hired by Harman. As far as what influences the sound of loudspeakers, resonances account for most of it. Get rid of all resonances and you end up with flat smooth direct sound and smooth off-axis, reflected, sounds. Speaker chassis, cones, suspensions, enclosures - boxes - all matter, but only in the sense that they must be designed to avoid resonances, non-linear distortions, and play loud enough. There are many, many options for materials and designs, but only competent mechanical engineering can deliver the components of a system that meets the anechoic measured requirements. Mechanical engineering of transducers and enclosures are separate topics - what this research has done is give the engineers confidence in a measured target performance, and customers a way to examine increasingly available spinorama curves and decide whether a product has been well designed or not. The 4th edition also covers headphones, authored by Sean Olive, and an expanded multiple-subwoofer section offering solutions to room resonances that we all deal with. OK?

 

[SSS]

The 4th edition is very different from the 2008 1st edition, covering new material and with a website adding more material and slide shows. BTW most of the hard core research was done in Canada while I was at the National Research Council, which is why I was hired by Harman. As far as what influences the sound of loudspeakers, resonances account for most of it. Get rid of all resonances and you end up with flat smooth direct sound and smooth off-axis, reflected, sounds. Speaker chassis, cones, suspensions, enclosures - boxes - all matter, but only in the sense that they must be designed to avoid resonances, non-linear distortions, and play loud enough. There are many, many options for materials and designs, but only competent mechanical engineering can deliver the components of a system that meets the anechoic measured requirements. Mechanical engineering of transducers and enclosures are separate topics - what this research has done is give the engineers confidence in a measured target performance, and customers a way to examine increasingly available spinorama curves and decide whether a product has been well designed or not. The 4th edition also covers headphones, authored by Sean Olive, and an expanded multiple-subwoofer section offering solutions to room resonances that we all deal with. OK?

Thank You for the fast reaction. Of course you know best what the difference of both books is. For me it is the question whether it is worth to buy an additional book which is not really low priced for a hobby reader.

 

[jeffaegrim]

Ordered through Amirs link. I really wanted the hardcover, but even with the discount, I can't justify three times the price of the softcover. I know this from my time at university, but academic literature is usually prohibitively expensive...

Can't wait to get my copy.

 

[john61ct]

flawed reflections are better than none. It is the adjacent sidewalls that do the work

So my room with stacked shelves of random clutter on either or both sides

doesn't stand a chance?

They are baker's racks on wheels so can go on the front wall behind LCR, but

I'd have to rent a storage container to get back to drywall, plus sliding glass and hallway make it non-symmetrical anyway.

PS I've cut back on buying physical Stuff, is there an electronic version of your book I can read on stock Android?

 

[john61ct]

It says so here . . .

Any discount code available?


via DM would be fine...

 

[Floyd Toole]

Any discount code available?


via DM would be fine...

The publisher website is offering 20% off prices. Don't know about Amazon prices.

 

[john61ct]

The publisher website is offering 20% off prices. Don't know about Amazon prices.

VitalSource eBook purchase link https://www.vitalsource.com/products/sound-reproduction-floyd-e-toole-sean-olive-v9781040426937

$44 for 6mo

Will give me some needed pressure to parse closely and take good notes

 

[Floyd Toole]

VitalSource eBook purchase link https://www.vitalsource.com/products/sound-reproduction-floyd-e-toole-sean-olive-v9781040426937

$44 for 6mo

Will give me some needed pressure to parse closely and take good notes

VitalSource eBook purchase link https://www.vitalsource.com/products/sound-reproduction-floyd-e-toole-sean-olive-v9781040426937

$44 for 6mo

Will give me some needed pressure to parse closely and take good notes

For a technical book that doesn't seem like a bargain. $20 more gets you a lifetime from the publisher, with website updates - don't ignore the book website, 550 pages weren't enough.

 

[john61ct]

Ooh I did not think access to the web resources would get cut off?

 

[RickS]

Ooh I did not think access to the web resources would get cut off?

Moved your book posts to more appropriate thread.

See this post…

Dr. Toole's 4th Edition Book is Coming! (Discount)

I can understand no pdf download but 5 year period of online access sounds ridicoulus if you cant download it and keep it in your library. Thats not a book for $5 nor fiction story to read and forget. Thanks for letting us know. I was thinking about e-book for a moment but never more. I am...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[RicD]

@Floyd Toole I received my copy of the book yesterday. I went on the publisher's website to access the Supplementary materials. The website asked me to enter the word from a specific location in the book. I entered it carefully several times, but it fails and asks me to correct my response.
Any suggestions on how to navigate this?
(my wife said to just read the book).
Thanks.

 

[Floyd Toole]

@Floyd Toole I received my copy of the book yesterday. I went on the publisher's website to access the Supplementary materials. The website asked me to enter the word from a specific location in the book. I entered it carefully several times, but it fails and asks me to correct my response.
Any suggestions on how to navigate this?
(my wife said to just read the book).
Thanks.

Your wife's suggestion would cause you to miss a bunch of useful stuff.

Sorry about the problem. Only the publisher can help. Go to Routledge.com, scroll down to the very bottom - the dark blue area - and click on customer service. Good luck.