Douk Audio DAC-Q11--The first USB DAC with Switchable ESS9038Q2M and AK4493?

[antcollinet]

But, until you do the level matching, you will get exactly what they advertise "the different sounds between the chips". The sound WILL be different until you level match.

I see no falsehood in what they say.

Except the difference in that case is not from the "sound" of the chips:
(again)

enables users to enjoy the robust dynamics of the ESS9038Q2M or the refined tones of the AK4493

it is from the perceptual effects of equal loudness curves.

This just worsens (if anything) the misinformation that is being peddled. At best they are promoting the"chips have a sound" myth. Worse if they are unwittingly reinforcing that by having a level mismatch which many will assume is a chip sound difference - exactly as you stated. Absolutely unacceptable if they are doing that knowingly.

If it does, then a lot of politicians have an issue.

Lets not go there


Anyway - I've now stated my opinion on this device (or more on the way it is sold/marketed) in more than enough ways, and more than enough times.

I'll stop now.

 

[Rob83]

C3850 kit = Accuphase circuit design kit?

Can you share the measurements? Sparkos likes to show how their measurements are superior to the other chip op amps, but we seem to see that chip based DACs work better than discrete DACs from a pure transparency standpoint so I am always a bit skeptical.

I have also found that the MUSES op amps have mediocre advertised specs but actually measure exceptionally.

Yes, it’s a Accuphase circuit. And yes, I could bring it to work again and do some measurements. It’s not that I’m a hardcore opamp roller or anything. I had build the kit a while back while changing some of the Chinese components for better quality ones and added dc filters on the inputs and outputs. After trying it I found it sounding muddy. Send some square waves through it at home and those didn’t come out quite squarish. Couldn’t figure out what I did wrong so I brought it to work to have a look at it with some coworkers. Soon we figured out it was the opamps and that they were likely relabeled knockoffs. (Didn’t even know that was a thing back then) Ordered the sparkos opamps and after installing them the next day it measured almost perfectly. I’m using it together with a hypex NCx500 power amp kit to drive my electrostatic speakers and I’m very happy with how it is now.

 

[EJ3]

Except the difference in that case is not from the "sound" of the chips:
(again)


it is from the perceptual effects of equal loudness curves.

This just worsens (if anything) the misinformation that is being peddled. At best they are promoting the"chips have a sound" myth. Worse if they are unwittingly reinforcing that by having a level mismatch which many will assume is a chip sound difference - exactly as you stated. Absolutely unacceptable if they are doing that knowingly.


Lets not go there


Anyway - I've now stated my opinion on this device (or more on the way it is sold/marketed) in more than enough ways, and more than enough times.

I'll stop now.

I guess, at the price, I have ZERO expectation of any truth, much less the "whole truth, ALL the truth & nothing but the TRUTH" such as I would for $500.

 

[Rob83]

I guess, at the price, I have ZERO expectation of any truth, much less the "whole truth, ALL the truth & nothing but the TRUTH" such as I would for $500.

Look at it this way, for under 200 you’ll have a very decent measuring DAC with 2 individual outputs. Hook it up to a linear power supply and it will probably even do a bit better. Here is someone who already did some measurements. It’s in Russian but if you’ll turn on captions and auto translate you can follow.

 

[Tom C]

I agree with others who have posted that, as is, this product isn’t terribly useful. But, for a similar cost, one could make a four-channel DAC. That would allow for use of two main channels, and two subwoofers. You could do software crossovers and EQ on a PC. If the crossovers and/or EQ were built into the Douk unit, that would be even better. Then it would be a unique and valuable product. If it is the case that the unit as is would sell better than a four-channel DAC, well, that’s a sad commentary on the current state of affairs.

 

[Bleib]

Look at it this way, for under 200 you’ll have a very decent measuring DAC with 2 individual outputs. Hook it up to a linear power supply and it will probably even do a bit better. Here is someone who already did some measurements. It’s in Russian but if you’ll turn on captions and auto translate you can follow.

It doesn't look bad or anything, the younger version of me would've been interested if the output was 2v on both. But still I guess I'd rather go with balanced design.
A SMSL PS200 is a lot cheaper for normal RCA use

 

[Rob83]

It doesn't look bad or anything, the younger version of me would've been interested if the output was 2v on both. But still I guess I'd rather go with balanced design.
A SMSL PS200 is a lot cheaper for normal RCA use

You don’t have to use both chips. You can also set it to output a single DAC chip to both outputs. That way you can use it as a preamp to drive a power amp and a set of active subwoofers. An SMSL PS200 isn’t going to do that. It doesn’t even look like it has volume control.

 

[Killingbeans]

Hook it up to a linear power supply and it will probably even do a bit better.

Measurably? Maybe if if Douk Audio has messed up the post regulation, filtering and PSRR quite a bit.

Audibly? Only if Douk Audio has seriously messed up the post regulation, filtering and PSRR. I doubt that's the case.

 

[Rob83]

Measurably? Maybe if if Douk Audio has messed up the post regulation, filtering and PSRR quite a bit.

Audibly? Only if Douk Audio has seriously messed up the post regulation, filtering and PSRR. I doubt that's the case.

I just find it hard to believe that this DAC is going to perform so well. I ordered it out of curiosity and paid 160 euros for it. They must have cut some corners somewhere right?

 

[Killingbeans]

There are definitely DACs that perform objectively better, but the specs says:

SNR:

≥117dB

Still seems very unlikely that a linear PSU will make an audible difference.

@amirm did a bit of testing of these things, and the conclusion was, unsurprisingly; Don't bother.

Do you need linear power supply for DACs?

Probably the most asked about question about DACs on audio forums is whether an external, usually linear, power supply improves performance. It just makes sense that it would do that. Doesn't it? Well, let's see if we can figure this out. I have been kindly loaned a Wyrd4Sound PS-1 power...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Groom]

I just find it hard to believe that this DAC is going to perform so well. I ordered it out of curiosity and paid 160 euros for it. They must have cut some corners somewhere right?

Would you mind sharing your impressions after testing?

 

[Rob83]

Would you mind sharing your impressions after testing?

I’m owning it for a while now and I must say I’m impressed. The build quality is much better than I would expect from a unit that cheap. I used it on my main system with a DIY Hypex NCX500 dual mono power amp and a pair of Martin Logan ESL-X speakers and on my office system with a DIY Icepower 125ASX2 power amp and a pair of Dali Rubicon 2 speakers. On my main system I could hear a very subtle difference between the Q11 and my SMSL-SU9. On my office system I wasn’t able to hear any difference at all. The difference between the 2 DAC chips in the Q11 is, apart from the difference in volume much harder to hear or rather impossible to hear. The difference in sound between the Q11 and the SMSL-SU9 is probably in the analog section. Opamp rolling may or may not make a difference.

 

[Bleib]

Cheapaudioman has made a review about the DAC, up on his youtube page

 

[Rednaxela]

Long story short: he heard a difference.

 

[antcollinet]

Long story short: he heard a difference.

Imagine that.

 

[EJ3]

Imagine that.

H'mm? Yep, imagine that!

 

[GGroch]

Just heard about this from the CAM Youtube and have a different take than most. I think its a great idea and would like to see a more advanced version.

1st, its a practical Confirmation Bias Testing Tool. The Q11 makes it simple. antcollinet and his camp (I am one) will hear no differences. DAC difference believers will hear huge differences. Listeners who don't know what a DAC is can be tested before and after exposer to AKM/ESS marketing. Simply proving the existence, strength and persistence of cognitive bias is well worth $160 to the audiophile world, and the world in general.

2nd, Its a simple true blind testing tool. DAC believers can be asked to guess which DAC chip is playing a statistically valid number of times. If they get it right say 14 out of 20 tries, then DAC difference skeptics are wrong. (assuming level matched outputs).

3rd, for DAC difference believers like CAM, it gives them something to fiddle with. Lack of fiddling options has been a major DAC deficiency. Contrast DACS to turntables where everything is adjustable, Dual chips ads to the fun for folks like CAM who can switch chips song to song for maximum enjoyment.

4th, it looks nice, has a glowing window, a huge knob, and a remote. These are all worthy benefits for $160....worth a lot more to most home users than balanced outputs which many pixel peepers here happily pay for.

Given CAMs conclusions, It appears we need a more advanced version with dual remote switchable power inputs (one for the stock supply and another for CAM's favorite linear)...and add dual remote switchable Op Amp bays. Douk.....Bring on the DAC-Q12!