Douk Audio DAC-Q11--The first USB DAC with Switchable ESS9038Q2M and AK4493?

[antcollinet]

I doubt there is any snake-oil perpetuated here...

....This specific hardware appears to do what "we" ask of a DAC to do,

enables users to enjoy the robust dynamics of the ESS9038Q2M or the refined tones of the AK4493

If there are audible differences between the two DACS included, that is sufficient for those differences to be "enjoyed", then they are manifestly NOT doing what 'we' ask a DAC to do - which is to perfectly reproduce the encoded music without audible noise, distortion or colouration - as the vast majority of DACs achieve regardless of which chip they include.

On the other hand, if (as I expect) the two DACs are inaudibly different, then that statement is a lie and we have snake oil. (Which I define as manufacturers claims being bogus)

Take your pick

 

[antcollinet]

Not only did I got better measurements, it also sounded better.

Bear in mine the results shown are orders of magnitude better than what we can hear. Even if it gets (say) 10x or even 100x worse at different frequencies, it is still inaudible.

However, if your tests show different, please feel free to share your measurement method and results, together with your blind listening test method (particularly describing the needed controls) and results.

Or maybe for your own interest see what level of distortion you personally are actually able to detect here:

Listening Test

www.klippel.de

EDIT : PS, we have a whole thread for this topic. Further discussion is best moved there. You should probably read through it first - though it may take you a day or two ...

Replace OP amps. Completely pointless, or not?

Why do so many OPs change amps in, for example, the amplifier AIYIMA A07 TPA3255? What's the point of that? Does not modern OPs amps amplify the signal completely linear straight(if the construction they sit in is well constructed, and made to fit OP amp X)? Do not modern OP amps have a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Rednaxela]

The world needs DSP!

 

[kyuu]

So what if Douk wants to sell a switchable DAC chip DAC. Some of those posting here don't seem to understand marketing. It is so cheap, if someone wants to try it - not exactly a big deal. Douk probably deserves a medal for daring to post here!

No I think everyone understands marketing just fine. It's just that many, quite rightly, have a fair amount of disdain for this kind of marketing designed to appeal to the uninformed and gullible.

 

[EJ3]

No I think everyone understands marketing just fine. It's just that many, quite rightly, have a fair amount of disdain for this kind of marketing designed to appeal to the uninformed and gullible.

Given the price...?
I can't think of anything that I have ever bought for my stereo (aside from interconnects & a roll of 16 GU wire that was that inexpensive.
At that point, it's not like someone's is scamming scamming thousands (either $ or people).
And MOST people here wouldn't buy it anyway, except just to play/experiment with it.
Since we know that if, it's different, it's either in the implementation (we can level match that to see & test).
Or in the heads of the "victims". But what are they a victim of?: Their own beliefs.

 

[kyuu]

Given the price it's hardly the worst thing someone could do with their money. Assuming it's designed competently, you'll get a perfectly fine DAC out of it, regardless of which one is selected.

Still, the entire premise of the device is built in the idea that there is any audible difference between the two DACs. And that's how it is being marketed.

 

[pseudoid]

Douk probably deserves a medal for daring to post here!

Unfortunately, I am guessing that Douk would NOT dare to introduce another product at ASR.
I wish that the manufacturers' reps engage more with us commentariat... but as Rodney Dangerfield once said "Oh... it's a tough crowd, a tough crowd!"

 

[Bob from Florida]

Unfortunately, I am guessing that Douk would NOT dare to introduce another product at ASR.
I wish that the manufacturers' reps engage more with us commentariat... but as Rodney Dangerfield once said "Oh... it's a tough crowd, a tough crowd!"

Tough crowd - maybe, but how tough is it to type up sharp criticism remotely? If one thinks the product is "dishonest" - don't buy it. I actually don't see the problem. The product covers ESS and AKM fans equally.

 

[Bob from Florida]

No I think everyone understands marketing just fine. It's just that many, quite rightly, have a fair amount of disdain for this kind of marketing designed to appeal to the uninformed and gullible.

Douk is being amazingly "civil" with their responses.

 

[kyuu]

Douk is being amazingly "civil" with their responses.

Sure. I don't think anyone suggested otherwise?

 

[antcollinet]

At that point, it's not like someone's is scamming scamming thousands (either $ or people).

It's not about a scam I don't think this product is a scam, except in that it doesn't do what they say it will (allow you to compare the "sound" of two chips) - it's about the promotion of misinformation.

 

[pseudoid]

Tra, la, la, tra, la, la!
I don't know, I am a virgin when it comes to ES90xx DACs.
I am wondering if I am going to be able to 'hear' the differences between the 6 different filter settings provided in the DP5SE.
I don't even know if I should try how would one go about attempting such a thing?

 

[Bob from Florida]

Tra, la, la, tra, la, la!
I don't know, I am a virgin when it comes to ES90xx DACs.
I am wondering if I am going to be able to 'hear' the differences between the 6 different filter settings provided in the DP5SE.
I don't even know if I should try how would one go about attempting such a thing?

I have 3 different DAC's in different systems. Schiit Modius AKM 4493, iFi DSD Signature Burr Brown, JDS Labs Element 3 mark 2 ESS 9018. Any differences I hear are confidently from different headphones and speakers. As long as they work, I am happy. There is something to be said for the Schiit way of doing DAC's - no options for filters, etc relieves you of those "dreaded" choices.

 

[EJ3]

It's not about a scam I don't think this product is a scam, except in that it doesn't do what they say it will (allow you to compare the "sound" of two chips) - it's about the promotion of misinformation.

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part: "Do not level match, lest you don't hear a difference".
I do not see what they said as promoting misinformation. I see it as "listen for yourself". If that means that you do not level match, then that is on you.

 

[pseudoid]

its only $110

If 5.5 members chip-in $20 each; 'we' could buy one and each can test it for a week and ship it to the next member.
No, not bad math!
The 0.5 comes in at the end when the 5th member sends Douk to @antcollinet, to dispose of it any way that he wishes.
Then, we can all laugh about it around Thanksgiving.

 

[antcollinet]

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part: "Do not level match, lest you don't hear a difference".
I do not see what they said as promoting misinformation. I see it as "listen for yourself". If that means that you do not level match, then that is on you.

You misunderstand me. My statement has nothing to do with level matching. You can't "compare the sound of two chips" because chips don't have a sound**. This "chips have a sound" nonsense is the misinformation.


**As evidenced by the nearly 200 DACS in the blue green section of the SINAD Chart which all measure as transparent - and (presumably) cover the gamut of commonly used DAC chips.

 

[antcollinet]

If 5.5 members chip-in $20 each; 'we' could buy one and each can test it for a week and ship it to the next member.
No, not bad math!
The 0.5 comes in at the end when the 5th member sends Douk to @antcollinet, to dispose of it any way that he wishes.
Then, we can all laugh about it around Thanksgiving.

If you want to do that, I'll happily listen and attempt (with an open mind) to discern any differences between the two circuits.

 

[GXAlan]

I don’t know if sending a 1khz tone through it would be an accurate representation. For example, I have a pair of suspicious opa1612’s here that came with a C3850 kit and they seem to perform fine if I send a 1 kHz tone through them. As soon as I test with other frequencies in the audible spectrum the performance starts to look much worse, especially at higher gain levels. Swapping them out for a pair of sparkos ss3602. Not only did I got better measurements, it also sounded better.

C3850 kit = Accuphase circuit design kit?

Can you share the measurements? Sparkos likes to show how their measurements are superior to the other chip op amps, but we seem to see that chip based DACs work better than discrete DACs from a pure transparency standpoint so I am always a bit skeptical.

I have also found that the MUSES op amps have mediocre advertised specs but actually measure exceptionally.

 

[TonyJZX]

"if you build it they will come"

- Douk probably

the corollary to that is:

"if you dont like it, walk"

i would rather manufacturers take chances

OR SMSL can build another DL100/200 etc.

 

[EJ3]

You misunderstand me. My statement has nothing to do with level matching. You can't "compare the sound of two chips" because chips don't have a sound**. This "chips have a sound" nonsense is the misinformation.


**As evidenced by the nearly 200 DACS in the blue green section of the SINAD Chart which all measure as transparent - and (presumably) cover the gamut of commonly used DAC chips.

Nope, I do not misunderstand you at all. But, because the chips are not level matched, there will likely be a perceived difference in sound which, if everything else is equal, should become = when level matched.
But, until you do the level matching, you will get exactly what they advertise "the different sounds between the chips". The sound WILL be different until you level match.
I see no falsehood in what they say.
On the other hand, the omission of saying you can make them sound the same IF you level match, leaves something to be desired for "Truth in Marketing". Because they are not disclosing the "Whole truth & nothing but the truth".
I do not think that counts as "mis-information".
If it does, then a lot of politicians have an issue.