"Double bass" over using a crossover is the way to go

[olds1959special]

I am finding that using my main speakers full-range is usually preferable for home listening where extra bass is desirable. I also use subwoofers but I set the LPF no higher than around 60Hz. I like listening this way instead of using a crossover.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

I did that for a while. -- then, the two manufacturers' (Kali and SVS) tech support folks both recommended an 80Hz crossover, which to my ear was an immense improvement. Unless the woofers of your L+R pair can manage exceptionally low distortion at the extreme low end of their response curves -- which may well be true in some cases, perhaps including yours -- IMO it's better to relieve them of that burden and assign it to the sub(s).

 

[sigbergaudio]

Both approaches can work. Experimentation and ideally measurements is the best way to find out what works best for any particular setup and room.

 

[kemmler3D]

I've had good results both ways, but I think more overlap can be helpful in filling nulls, so if you don't listen loud it can be worth the extra distortion. Pretty situation dependent.

 

[Mort]

so if you don't listen loud

What's the point?

 

[kemmler3D]

What's the point?

Filling nulls

 

[Mort]

Filling nulls

I bet you're fun at parties

 

[KenMasters]

Much would depend on the phase behaviour of the overlapping region - could work for or against you.

 

[kemmler3D]

I bet you're fun at parties

Well, either way it would have more to do with my choice of beverage than crossover frequency.

 

[Mort]

Well, either way it would have more to do with my choice of beverage than crossover frequency.

Crossover party at @kemmler3D's house!


OP can also switch to Dirac Art which leaves the mains full range too, if I understand correctly.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Oftentimes you may have EQ abilities in the sub and not in the loudspeakers, and/or have dips/peaks in the speakers that don't necessarily appear with the sub.

In such a situation the sub isn't able to do as much good as it could have if you leave the speakers to play full range, since the peaks and dips in the speakers are still left to mess up the sound despite adding the sub. And of course a competent sub or two will likely outperform the speakers (not always the case with very large speakers of course).

 

[olds1959special]

I'm going to try my FMOD Inline HPF filters again but this time use the 50 Hz ones while my subs are set at 60 Hz. The overlap will create less of a hole. Also the FMOD filter is 12dB slope, which is more of a gradual roll-off.

 

[goat76]

Oftentimes you may have EQ abilities in the sub and not in the loudspeakers, and/or have dips/peaks in the speakers that don't necessarily appear with the sub.

In such a situation the sub isn't able to do as much good as it could have if you leave the speakers to play full range, since the peaks and dips in the speakers are still left to mess up the sound despite adding the sub. And of course a competent sub or two will likely outperform the speakers (not always the case with very large speakers of course).

On the other hand, it can as likely be even better to have the EQ in an external unit, as that doesn’t limit the EQ abilities only to the frequency range of the subwoofer(s).

 

[Oddball]

I'm going to try my FMOD Inline HPF filters again but this time use the 50 Hz ones while my subs are set at 60 Hz. The overlap will create less of a hole. Also the FMOD filter is 12dB slope, which is more of a gradual roll-off.

Well a lots of people did this before this post. But not sure what are you trying to accomplish, with what and to what extent?

You still have a crossover here, it just works differently and only towards your subs - low pass filter. Make sure your are not overloading your mains though. Assume you are using Audy so roll of the mains according to detected in room response.

 

[sigbergaudio]

On the other hand, it can as likely be even better to have the EQ in an external unit, as that doesn’t limit the EQ abilities only to the frequency range of the subwoofer(s).

Yes, I wasn't commenting on the optimal setup, just what was often the case.

 

[olds1959special]

Well a lots of people did this before this post. But not sure what are you trying to accomplish, with what and to what extent?

You still have a crossover here, it just works differently and only towards your subs - low pass filter. Make sure your are not overloading your mains though. Assume you are using Audy so roll of the mains according to detected in room response.

I can say this has been sounding excellent and am leaving things alone for now.

 

[Chrispy]

With multiple subs not my particular preference or experience. If I had limited sub positions or gear to integrate, perhaps.

 

[Jim Taylor]

I am finding that using my main speakers full-range is usually preferable for home listening where extra bass is desirable.

Running your mains full-range usually produces higher 2nd-order distortion. 2nd-order distortion is perceived subjectively as "louder". This may give the impression of "extra" bass, which you find desirable.

Some people think the "louder" effect is due to increased outer-ear distortion:

"Cone displacement in loudspeakers is rarely symmetrical, which result in 2nd order distortion at low frequencies, [the] ear has its own asymmetrical nonlinearity (increasing 2nd order distortion from 80 dBSPL)."

From: https://www.tonestack.net/articles/audio-measurements/sinad-thd-audibility-thresholds.html

Others think it's simply due to the effect of new waveforms (the overtones) being added to the output signal. Either way, mastering engineers have known of (and used) the effect for decades.

 

[Keith_W]

Running your mains full-range usually produces higher 2nd-order distortion. 2nd-order distortion is perceived subjectively as "louder". This may give the impression of "extra" bass, which you find desirable.

A more likely explanation is that with more bass sources in the room that is not time aligned properly, the decay time will be longer. Longer decay time = subjectively more bass.

 

[Lawhaus]

I am finding that using my main speakers full-range is usually preferable for home listening where extra bass is desirable. I also use subwoofers but I set the LPF no higher than around 60Hz. I like listening this way instead of using a crossover.

I have the same experience, and have measured extensively. It did however depend heavily in speaker-sub-room
combo.

My room just has a big null at the seating position when using a single aub, there’s no amount of EQ that can fix it. With my LS50 bookshelves the crossover was preferred because the bookshelves didnt have to struggle al the low end.

Now with the R11 floorstanders I just let them go full range together with. the sub. It doesnt sound as clean or precise as the LS50 (they never did anyway, whatever config) but the range is much more complete, without big nulls. I gladly take the tradeoff for everyday use: tv, movies, music