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Don's New Revels in House: Salon2, Voice2, F206

Discussion in 'Member Area' started by DonH56, Jun 10, 2017.

  1. Fitzcaraldo215

    Fitzcaraldo215 Addicted to Fun and Learning

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    No, Don. I think he means cutting a hole in the wall the exact size of the Maggies, so that people on each side of the wall would hear only the direct sound from one side of the speaker with no dipole cancellation or other dipole dispersion effects.

    Incidentally, a good friend has a Salon2/Voice2 5.1 setup, with something else for surrounds. He likes it a lot and so do I.

    I am heavily into Mch classical music, myself, though my Mch audio system also serves beautifully for video. Do you do much with Mch music? For me, it was one of the greatest discoveries ever in audio.
     
  2. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Technical Expert

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    OK, that makes sense. Still no sacrificial walls in my place, and the chance of getting different people in two different rooms who want to hear the same music is nil, so,,, ;)

    Re. Mch music: Just about the time I bought a couple of Mch SACD discs my Oppo died so no. But, that is one thing I want to try more of, as mentioned earlier. Do you use SACDs, DVDs, BDs, stream? Where do you go for Mch music? Probably worthy of another thread...
     
  3. c1ferrari

    c1ferrari Active Member

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    Thank you, kindly, Tom. :)
     
  4. Fitzcaraldo215

    Fitzcaraldo215 Addicted to Fun and Learning

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    SACD is primary. Mch downloads and streaming are still rare. There are many fewer BD-Audio only discs, but also a fair number of BD Video concerts, operas, ballets, etc. Most, except for BD-V, are covered here:

    http://www.hraudio.net/

    An excellent resource! My bible!
     
  5. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Technical Expert

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    Bookmarked, thanks! Waffling between the Sony X800 and new Oppo. Main differences for me are price and Sony's lack of Dolby Vision support. No idea if the latter will matter in the long run.
     
  6. Nightlord

    Nightlord Active Member

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    I mean to put them in a hole each, so they radiate into both rooms. Probably flush with the wall in the room that is primary, so in the back radiation room they will probably just be usable for background music as the recessed mounting will probably have some drawbacks, unless one could do a nice waveguide out of it that is. If the waveguide turns out to be a good idea, then of course speaker could be put in the middle of the wall with a waveguide towards each room.
     
  7. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Technical Expert

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    Got it, thanks. There will be diffraction and some effects from the cavity but the basic sound probably won't change a lot. They generally act like line'ish sources until the wavelength exceed the panel dimensions, so minimal interaction with the cavity. Below that they'll start to act more like a point source but by then the wavelengths are probably much longer than the wall thickness.
     
  8. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Technical Expert

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    Update: I've been dialing things in and have gotten things set up pretty well now. Here is something that shocked me a bit: My Salon2's, when running about 10 dB louder than my old Magnepan MG-IIIa's, have about 10 dB lower distortion! I mean, @%^$#!!! I just happened to compare those two curves and those are the levels I had run. Boy, these things are clean! I'm within about 5 dB of the target curve out to 20 kHz (not that I can hear anywhere near that high), and 3 dB down at about 7 Hz (amazing what a quartet of subs and small'ish room will do).

    I'm rather pleased [/understatement] - Don
     
  9. RayDunzl

    RayDunzl Major Contributor Central Scrutinizer

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    Not saying this is you, but I noticed something similar here, but it was noise being measured, not distortion.

    To test, ran sweeps from very low to high levels - JBL LSR 308.

    Distortion decreased with more volume (like better SNR ratio) until the distortion from the speakers actually rose out of the noise floor (of the room, the mic, the whatever).

    The signal SPL had to be pretty loud - like 85 or 90 dB - before the "real" distortion emerged.

    Distortion decreases with signal:
    50/55/60/65/70/75/80 dB signal - distortion - top is 50dB SPL, bottom 80 dB

    upload_2017-6-17_21-29-4.png

    Then, distortion increases with signal:
    80/85/90/95 SPL - lowest distortion line is 80dB SPL

    upload_2017-6-17_21-30-28.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  10. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Technical Expert

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    Well, possibly, but I am seeing discrete spurs well above the noise floor. The THD is suspect since it looks like noise is impacting that, especially at lower levels, but my room is fairly quiet so I think the results are real. Actually what I was looking at was more like SFDR.
     
  11. RayDunzl

    RayDunzl Major Contributor Central Scrutinizer

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    At Listening position, both speakers speaking, 10 ft distance:

    MartinLogan Panels - 80dB, 815Hz

    upload_2017-6-18_1-58-27.png

    JBL LSR 308 - 80dB, 815Hz

    upload_2017-6-18_2-0-58.png

    Could you take a comparative reading on the Revels just for grins? I don't have access to Ultima anything here.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2017
  12. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Technical Expert

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    That's using REW? I have not used its RTA facility and barely looked at its distortion plots (measured distortion using another program, R+D, and my Earthworks mic). I am also not sure the distortion level and noise floor of the UMIK-1. I'll run some tests next time I have everything set up (put it all away yesterday and have other plans today). Not sure they are as clean as yours, and I know the impulse response is nowhere near as nice, though the latter is a function of the room as well.
     
  13. Reginald Addison

    Reginald Addison Member

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    My condolences on your father. Maybe you will think of him when you turn on your stereo.
    Sorry you left the dipole club. Those boxes are cumbersome and expensive. I hope this was a vertical move and the bloom never fades.
    Congrats.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
    amirm likes this.
  14. DonH56

    DonH56 Addicted to Fun and Learning Technical Expert

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    Thank you Reginald, and welcome to ASR!

    Cumbersome weight-wise, true, but the footprint from the MLP is much less, so pros and cons, natch. As for a vertical shift, who ever really knows for sure, but definitely not a step down, at least lateral, and in some ways a step up. They don't have the big "presence" of my Maggies but the sound stage is much more spacious than I had expected, though I should have expected that given their very different dispersion patterns.

    Doubt I'll ever really leave the dipole club but it is interesting going back (to the Dark Side? ;) ) for a while. Probably a long while as these circumstances were pretty unique. I do think my Maggies would be happier in a bigger room, but even though our youngest is graduating this year he and Mom vetoed ripping up the basement so I could add it to my media room, imagine that. :cool:

    Now I just need more time to listen, Work keeps interfering with Life. :)

    As for the bloom fading, well, I need to avoid mirrors... - Don
     

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