Dolby Vision 2.0?

[Oddball]

https://www.avforums.com/news/dolby-announces-dolby-vision-2-and-dolby-vision-2-max.22913/

What the hell is this? Not enough that we have HDR and DV contest on our displays, but then comes Dolby with a newest standard?

 

[JeffS7444]

Oh look, a new source of income for Dolby!

 

[Power Pop 23]

https://www.avforums.com/news/dolby-announces-dolby-vision-2-and-dolby-vision-2-max.22913/

What the hell is this? Not enough that we have HDR and DV contest on our displays, but then comes Dolby with a newest standard?

It seems Dolby is attempting to maintain their licensing income by creating a standard they hope will be perceived as sufficiently more performant than the royalty-free, HDR10+ standard to be worth the licensing cost.

Uff da ! (Norwegian for oy vey)

 

[Oddball]

Well as far as I am concerned, no DV 2.0 for me. I finally got the ultimate firmware for my TV, 22 mos into the cycle, so I am all set.

DV can go and enjoy themselves with few that will follow.

 

[Blueprint]

Dolby are probably panicking that high-end TV advancement has rendered their USP (frame-level metadata) close to useless. Better create something new.

 

[Power Pop 23]

I had to revisit Wikipedia to remind myself of all the standards Dolby Labs has introduced. I was too young to experience the Dolby 'A' noise reduction system.

It is my perception Dolby Labs has added little of practical value since the introduction of their 'B' noise reduction system.

The value of their forays into home theater audio are blunted by the audio compromises most households face with implementation into a multi-use space.

They tout Dolby Vision but are willing to license it to models of TV's that lack the brightness to make use of their standard.

Dolby Vision has dedicated followers who will welcome Dolby Vision 2 but I see it as no reason for that market to grow significantly.

 

[Oddball]

Looks like AI got it right .

I had to revisit Wikipedia to remind myself of all the standards Dolby Labs has introduced. I was too young to experience the Dolby 'A' noise reduction system.

It is my perception Dolby Labs has added little of practical value since the introduction of their 'B' noise reduction system.

The value of their forays into home theater audio are blunted by the audio compromises most households face with implementation into a multi-use space.

They tout Dolby Vision but are willing to license it to models of TV's that lack the brightness to make use of their standard.

Dolby Vision has dedicated followers who will welcome Dolby Vision 2 but I see it as no reason for that market to grow significantly.

 

[Blueprint]

I had to revisit Wikipedia to remind myself of all the standards Dolby Labs has introduced. I was too young to experience the Dolby 'A' noise reduction system.

It is my perception Dolby Labs has added little of practical value since the introduction of their 'B' noise reduction system.

The value of their forays into home theater audio are blunted by the audio compromises most households face with implementation into a multi-use space.

They tout Dolby Vision but are willing to license it to models of TV's that lack the brightness to make use of their standard.

Dolby Vision has dedicated followers who will welcome Dolby Vision 2 but I see it as no reason for that market to grow significantly.

I mean this as no slight on you at all, but this is a perfect example of the power of Dolby’s marketing machine. Dolby Vision has no benefit to high-end displays. Since such displays are now capable of not only high nit-white brightness, but also capability to display the highest colour brightness on the spectrum, the only really useful thing that Dolby Vision does, dynamic metadata, is redundant.

Dolby Vision improves HDR presentation in low-capability devices by dynamically adjusting the brightness range in each scene, rather than the whole film (which is what HDR10 does). This is beneficial to devices with low brightness capability, as DV can lift dark details in dark scenes and preserve bright details in bright scenes in a way that HDR10 can’t. But it no longer matters. There is no more detail in DV than in HDR10 on my TV and it’s a C2. This years G5 is orders of magnitude better, let alone the QD-OLED displays. Yet Dolby have convinced customers, and content makers quite frankly, that Dolby Vision is the ultimate prestigious standard.

It’s bordering on pointless. The only bugbear I have with getting rid of it (by going Samsung for example) is that UHD discs sometimes contain colour information in the secondary layer. Saving Private Ryan as an example. So I still use it. But it winds me up as with most Dolby get up to.

 

[JeffS7444]

I won't concern myself too much until DV 2 content becomes mainstream and the benefits are clearly evident. Not much point in my paying a premium to be an early adopter just so I can watch a few demos before anyone else.

 

[EWL5]

I won't concern myself too much until DV 2 content becomes mainstream and the benefits are clearly evident. Not much point in my paying a premium to be an early adopter just so I can watch a few demos before anyone else.

I don't think DV 2 will ever become mainstream. I own an LG OLED TV and 4k BD player that supports the original DV but there is so little content. Households are mostly streaming now and even if a movie/show is DV-compatible, you typically have to be on the premium version of the streaming service to watch it!

 

[GS430man]

I agree that DV2 will need to have good demonstration material for people to judge its value.

Top-end TVs are always looking to differentiate, so I won't be surprised to see some high end models including DV2 Max.

For 'mainstream' TVs, the functions will depend on cost for the manufacturer.

 

[Dovydas]

I mean this as no slight on you at all, but this is a perfect example of the power of Dolby’s marketing machine. Dolby Vision has no benefit to high-end displays. Since such displays are now capable of not only high nit-white brightness, but also capability to display the highest colour brightness on the spectrum, the only really useful thing that Dolby Vision does, dynamic metadata, is redundant.

Dolby Vision improves HDR presentation in low-capability devices by dynamically adjusting the brightness range in each scene, rather than the whole film (which is what HDR10 does). This is beneficial to devices with low brightness capability, as DV can lift dark details in dark scenes and preserve bright details in bright scenes in a way that HDR10 can’t. But it no longer matters. There is no more detail in DV than in HDR10 on my TV and it’s a C2. This years G5 is orders of magnitude better, let alone the QD-OLED displays. Yet Dolby have convinced customers, and content makers quite frankly, that Dolby Vision is the ultimate prestigious standard.

It’s bordering on pointless. The only bugbear I have with getting rid of it (by going Samsung for example) is that UHD discs sometimes contain colour information in the secondary layer. Saving Private Ryan as an example. So I still use it. But it winds me up as with most Dolby get up to.

It's still useful for projectors, but for any screen capable more than 1000 nits, there's little to none benefit. There are only few movies graded in 2000 or 4000 nits. But as you said, new OLEDs are already capable of 2000 nits. So it's even less beneficial

 

[masterhw]

My understanding of what DV2 does is (finally) provide content producers the ability to turn off many of the god-awful default picture settings many TVs come with. No more soap opera effect.

I don’t think this will do anything meaningful for enthusiasts, in fact many of us would be upset for the settings to be changed as we have placed them where we have for a reason.
However for the median consumer that never changes a single setting, this can provide a way for their TV to genuinely “look” better and to provide harm reduction for the most egregious of stock settings.

Would not go out of my way for a DV2 device or stream, but I can acknowledge it probably will improve the viewing experience for the median viewer.

 

[Oddball]

My understanding of what DV2 does is (finally) provide content producers the ability to turn off many of the god-awful default picture settings many TVs come with. No more soap opera effect.

I don’t think this will do anything meaningful for enthusiasts, in fact many of us would be upset for the settings to be changed as we have placed them where we have for a reason.
However for the median consumer that never changes a single setting, this can provide a way for their TV to genuinely “look” better and to provide harm reduction for the most egregious of stock settings.

Would not go out of my way for a DV2 device or stream, but I can acknowledge it probably will improve the viewing experience for the median viewer.

Love your thinking - as usual. Reading between the lines is important.

Not really keen on commenting on something I don't fully understand but why not to speculate since they did not really come with full release, including some meaningful tests. Their features regarding motion, dark scenes and light scenes are issues that need to be addressed in firmware, not the master. Different panels require different solutions. So it might actually backfire if they lock the settings and make it universal.

Otherwise, I am finally happy with the firmware update that came through last week for my 22 mos old TV. Thank you TLC, video processing is finally marvellous with a solid hint of Sony 3D effect and no issues even with the dreaded DV 1.0. Wish this could have been done in 6 mos though.

Also found this clip enlightening. How HDR works for movies in the real world. Actually how it does not. We could likely benefit more from more 4K high nit mastered content and higher streaming bit rates than any theoretical advancements.

 

[masterhw]

Dolby Vision has no benefit to high-end displays. Since such displays are now capable of not only high nit-white brightness, but also capability to display the highest colour brightness on the spectrum, the only really useful thing that Dolby Vision does, dynamic metadata, is redundant.

I can understand why you come to this conclusion, but in practice this is not the case. It is covered more fully in this video (if you can tolerate the robo-narrator), but the gist is that the base HDR10 layer is usually a handicapped mix intended for the median consumer TV, and not high end displays. Thus it is frequently limited to 600 or 1000 nits brightness. You need the Dolby Vision metadata to restore the full fat mix, not by design of the spec but by mix convention.

 

[Blueprint]

I can understand why you come to this conclusion, but in practice this is not the case. It is covered more fully in this video (if you can tolerate the robo-narrator), but the gist is that the base HDR10 layer is usually a handicapped mix intended for the median consumer TV, and not high end displays. Thus it is frequently limited to 600 or 1000 nits brightness. You need the Dolby Vision metadata to restore the full fat mix, not by design of the spec but by mix convention.

Yes I made mention of this when I brought up the Saving Private Ryan example. There is brightness and sometimes colour information in the enhancement layer on 4K blu-rays. I find it frustrating because it doesn’t need to be like that, at least not until 12 bit displays are released. And in reality, in the vast majority of cases (there are some exceptions like that one I’ve noted) there is no actual visible difference to the naked eye. And I say this as someone who owns a CoreELEC based DVP7 player, buying into the FEL DV hype myself once upon a time.

The best way of judging the difference between DV and HDR10 on a high-end TV is to play a streamed video in DVP5 and then HDR10. On my TV there is no difference. There was a guy once on a forum I don’t recall that had a Google sheet where he’d screen capture the HDR10 file and DV file and put them side-by-side. It doesn’t exist anymore apparently but I can find reference to it I’ll post about it. It was a Where’s Waldo situation to find even the smallest difference between the two files on his C2.

 

[Oddball]

I saw Dolby Vision 2 HDR in action on cheaper TVs, and it's a bigger upgrade than you think

Unfortunately, I just can't show it to you…

www.techradar.com

At least some live experience, however set up.

It is clear that DV 2.0 are "remasters". Part of the benefit might just come from the better attention to detail, but then there is something to it for sure. Makes sense to break it up in two tears, but would be more interested in seeing what the top tier has in store.

 

[Andysu]

more dolby bs at manipulating the image , couldn't care less for dolby vision 2 , i'll never download a new firmware ( but even that comes with any new updates ) i never use , i even have dolby vision switched off on the panasonic 9000 george lucas THX player , i hardly even have hdr switched on , oh i do miss doing projectionist 27 years ago or started 36 years , oh real colour image , now its processed and bs image just so studios can use a tool to lure us all in to keep , bread and butter on their extreme greedy tables and petrol in their cars so they can snobby cruise up and down hollywood and yet they give us in return a raw deal

keep dolby vision worst than atmos , films look trash and dark dim now , rubbish compared to when i did projection decades ago , i'm out of here , don't quote me , that;s all i have to say , dolby vision is junk for uhd rubbish

 

[Andysu]

I had to revisit Wikipedia to remind myself of all the standards Dolby Labs has introduced. I was too young to experience the Dolby 'A' noise reduction system.

It is my perception Dolby Labs has added little of practical value since the introduction of their 'B' noise reduction system.

The value of their forays into home theater audio are blunted by the audio compromises most households face with implementation into a multi-use space.

They tout Dolby Vision but are willing to license it to models of TV's that lack the brightness to make use of their standard.

Dolby Vision has dedicated followers who will welcome Dolby Vision 2 but I see it as no reason for that market to grow significantly.

cat 22 Dolby A type single card ( if into star wars 1977/80/83 then get a CP200 for the home to play with ) , cat 222 duel A type , cat 280t real Dolby SR cat 350 SR
oh miss sort of miss projection days and A type 04 on the CP55 and oh 05 SR soundtracks

 

[MbphotoX]

HDR is fantastic..
I never cared about UHD resolution.. my 100" Screen with 1080p Sony SXRD projector was all I ever needed resolution-wise. (at 10ft seating distance, I was unable to see single pixels anyways)
But the introduction of HDR changed my mind completely.

I still don't care for 4k resolution, but the high dynamic range we're getting these days is amazing.

Also, yes, film makers are getting ridiculous with their dark scenes (the long night from Game of Thrones comes to mind, yikes), basically requiring you to be sitting in a pitch black room with no ambient lighting so you can see the content..
But that's not because of HDR, I think.. It has more to do with their ability to finally be able to show "pitch black night" with modern TVs. 20 years ago, you needed a Plasma to see the black of space.. now, everyone can somewhat enjoy it.