dolby labs atmos movie mixes and elevation speakers is Snake Oil! lol

[Andysu]

Sooty, not impressed with dolby labs atmos elevation speakers much less, simple diy placed at 45 degree angle with atMouse

the movie sound mixers and director producer of these mostly rubbish atmos movies to get, "us all" well not all of us to buying these big budget box office mega blockbusters, often flops.

the latest rubbish garbage trash movie i brought and only to roast it as it was plainly dreadful and sound mix was below average, i have listened to tens thousands of dolby mixes since the 1970's and many decent better ones was before this brainwashing 3d immersive auro, atmos and dtsx snake oil, yes snake oil.
most gullible consumers automatically think atmos soundtrack is going to be life changing? as it turns out most of the time its been disappointing.
i could type a lot more. more of the same that i and many others have already typed or mentioned in a video.
dolby atmos is Snake Oil. there i can easily type it and say in a video.

in bed as its a "dolby bed channel", to relax and recuperate over that garbage trash, no time to die, yesterday.

 

[dougi]

I also recently gave up on "DIY" ATMOS elevation speakers (Elipson Planet M) as I heard no effect from the listening position. I mean, sound was coming out of them, but I heard no height effect. I have enabled "virtual ATMOS height" instead in my AVR, equally pointless. What I don't understand is do elevation speakers need a 'ATMOS frequency response' they talk about to trick the ears, or does the AVR do that, like it does in virtual height mode?

 

[Andysu]

atmos and it's bizarre frequency curve for those rubbish branded atmos speakers and, and i even make that same frequency curve using PEQ filters.
as for that virtual mode, i never use it, and seems that the garbage denon avc-x8500h which it is garbage, most features are not switched and it seems i wasted money on

i placed JBL control 1, at 45 degrees with pink noise and all i hard was a diffused frequency and some of the high frequency off-axis sounding less brighter or less focused and i can hear bass mid. but still elevation atmos speaker angle is rubbish, pure snake oil.

now here is some overhead surrounds, experimental overhead surrounds at UCI tower park poole, uk, back in 1989, the picture courtesy of someme posted three pictures on facebook and i not seen the overheads since i worked there as projectionist and was fully aware and highly active listening even back then and still am only, dolby labs atmos is a joke most of the time. the atnos is licensed out, yet it is down to poor directors producers and sound mixers, and their excuse of the day is money was thin and couldn't spend more time on it. wow that is some excuse for $200m on most and the money should be equally divided 50% picture is what is seen on screen the next 50% should be for sound. but it doesn't work like that, so george lucas is full of it. 50% picture 50% sound. yeah sure it is.

the overhead surrounds are EV speakers x8 in screen 6 with screen 5 to left side and the smaller screens 1 to 4 and 7 to 10 on the left and right sides of the two main larger screens.

dolby labs ain't got shhhhh,it on UCI with its 1989 overhead surrounds. place speakers above it radiates nicely with the frequency response. i know i was there and when i left a year so later i often see a movie there in SR or the odd A-type but the SR was best analog sound one could hear.

another angle on screen 6.

one of the smaller screens with x7 EV experimental overhead surrounds

all sound was provided by Dolby Stereo CP55 with SRA5 basic quad hi-fi mod amps x4 in each rack in projection, EV stage LCR no sw used even thou required for SR soundtracks

 

[charleski]

5.1 is all you need. Make sure the surrounds are properly placed and you get plenty of 'height' illusion in the sound field.

But then they wouldn't be able to sell you more gear....

 

[jhaider]

I’ve heard height effect from bouncers a couple times - once in my home (Denon X4100, KEF eggs atop my mains with a lot of firing angle experimrntation and the “Atmos enabled” curve copied from their patent in a miniDSP) and once at a show (Deftech setup). I think it’s very setup dependent. Ultimately bouncers might be more suited to enhancing the spatial qualities of 2ch recordings (similar to some of @Duke’s designs) with additional processing than for height effects per se.

 

[dougi]

I’ve heard height effect from bouncers a couple times - once in my home (Denon X4100, KEF eggs atop my mains with a lot of firing angle experimrntation and the “Atmos enabled” curve copied from their patent in a miniDSP) and once at a show (Deftech setup). I think it’s very setup dependent. Ultimately bouncers might be more suited to enhancing the spatial qualities of 2ch recordings (similar to some of @Duke’s designs) with additional processing than for height effects per se.

What I don't understand is, if in my AVR you have to tell it what sort of height speakers you have (i.e. I told it I had elevation speakers) why can't it then automatically apply the frequency response to them? Why do the physical elevation speakers bother with that at all if AVRs should be able to add it in DSP?

 

[jhaider]

What I don't understand is, if in my AVR you have to tell it what sort of height speakers you have (i.e. I told it I had elevation speakers) why can't it then automatically apply the frequency response to them? Why do the physical elevation speakers bother with that at all if AVRs should be able to add it in DSP?

My guess is Dolby wanted to sell an “Atmos Enabled” license to speaker makers. There’s some debate whether that curve is necessary though . I’ve never bouncers tried without it.

 

[Andysu]

I’ve heard height effect from bouncers a couple times - once in my home (Denon X4100, KEF eggs atop my mains with a lot of firing angle experimrntation and the “Atmos enabled” curve copied from their patent in a miniDSP) and once at a show (Deftech setup). I think it’s very setup dependent. Ultimately bouncers might be more suited to enhancing the spatial qualities of 2ch recordings (similar to some of @Duke’s designs) with additional processing than for height effects per se.

eggs, where they free range eggs? lol don't throw eggs at the ceiling although it would have a dripping yoke effect from overhead. lol
i know, dolby eggmos.

 

[Andysu]

5.1 is all you need. Make sure the surrounds are properly placed and you get plenty of 'height' illusion in the sound field.

But then they wouldn't be able to sell you more gear....

funny you mention that. i often hear even at cinemas once at cinemas (no longer go near them now far too deafening) but at few certain cinemas i hear a height effect that is usually the bass cabs and HF horns I hear an up and down sound as i know what to look for and i rather don't mind it. i also hear it on my cinema JBL and often a below sound or certain low frequncuies that makes me, moving my head as my ear detects a shifting in the frequency of many tracks all playing at once. i could do the same with sine wave tones many playing all at once and see what effect it does as it usually does, nulls, dips, peaks random waveform scattered waveform that is what the sound mix is doing. i often thought there was actual overhead in, 'no time to die', but it was only the way the side/rear surrounds are placed same as a cinema and even regular side/rear surrounds, one may think? "am i hearing overhead"? overhead has been so brainwashed into the masses since auro, atmos, dtsx. yes brainwashed lol,. yes. lol

i recall reading years ago, in another cinema far, far away "hearing that star destroyer from overhead" i actual did, feb '78 cinemarama screen 1, odeon bournemouth, now home to the pigeons.

original x6 overhead surrounds flush in ceiling and the other surrounds installed in 1999, JBL 8330 mkI x16 placed in the wrong locations but it worked but not as good as the original overhead surrounds even thou the JBL are placed way, way above the audiences and in some areas of the auditorium the surrounds are going to sound dreadful.
anyway there it is, i heard star wars with overhead surround on its first national opening day, feb '78.

downstairs screen 2 (picture early '70's?) this screen had side/rear surrounds in the usual standard placement with x6 overhead flush in the ceiling. and i heard Star Wars in this screen.

screen 2 got gutted and divided into shoebox screens in 1989 picture below is back of the original auditorium with one of the overhead surrounds covered up with some wood.

again today dolby labs would go to any length to suppress the overhead surround truth that some cinemas used overhead decades before. and so what if the same surround signal was used and duplicated many times and it worked well but if going around looking at it closer, one would realize its not discrete, of course . if one listens carefully to these up-mixers used by auro, dolby, dtsx they are so fake as it is taking the signal from the wrong channel output. front L R, wow big deal I could easily do that before auro and all the rest of the copycats was doing it. add extra a matrix decoder onto front L R , easy. only what i hear with up-mixer its not subtracting any sound from front L R it is wired or hardwired in the chip to do it another way. which is easy.

i could place the stereo surround channel and duplicate it my way. with on the ceiling sidewall and on the floor and back wall and balance the pink noise levels and should theoretically sound great. a real surround as in space there is no up, down side to side front or back, the stars are everywhere. anyone getting an idea now?

that 'no time to die', scene of going under in a river with ice above and no sense of deep 20Hz pressure of discomfort as the water flows in the ear canal and causes pressure pain. that movie doesn't need anymore praising it was waste of my listening time.

 

[test1223]

Hello,

I have to agree and disagree here. A properly installed 3D sound setup sounds much more immersive than a similar 5.1 or 7.1 setup. But there are plenty of problems to setup a proper 3D sound set-up.

Problems:
It only works properly at one seat. The settings and processing of the AV-Receiver and the material has to be correct. You need some more elevated speakers at least four. By adding only one or two speakers above your head it would no integrate. 9.1 at least. These reflection speakers placed on the stereo speakers are not good.

The main difference is the feeling of being enveloped in the sound. Yes you can also get this feeling with a 5.1, Stereo and even Mono set-ups and recordings but almost none of the actually existing systems provide such a feeling.
Additionally a 3D sound set-up provide a better sense of the space and distance of the place and sound source. But this isn't perfect. Obviously you can also get some sound events places around you.

Best
Thomas

 

[FishInLA]

I also recently gave up on "DIY" ATMOS elevation speakers (Elipson Planet M) as I heard no effect from the listening position. I mean, sound was coming out of them, but I heard no height effect. I have enabled "virtual ATMOS height" instead in my AVR, equally pointless. What I don't understand is do elevation speakers need a 'ATMOS frequency response' they talk about to trick the ears, or does the AVR do that, like it does in virtual height mode?

There is more to the Atmos Enabled speakers than just the notch, which is why using normal speakers pointed to bounce off the ceiling doesn't work so well. The characteristics of a good Atmos Enabled speaker are:

1) The built-in notch filter to help simulate overhead sounds (this is built into the speaker, but also your AVR is told to not EQ it back out again when you tell your AVR you are using Atmos Enabled speakers for the tops)

2) Narrow dispersion so that they "beam" for a nice tight bounce off the ceiling

3) Drivers recessed, angled and baffled so that you don't hear the direct sound, only the reflected sound

4) Designed to not dig very deep (and meant to be bass-managed), as it's the high frequencies that more effectively beam and bounce

 

[airmail]

I have some Dali bouncers here.

They are setup dependent.

How I knew I had set them up properly was when I was sending test tones through all speakers individually, my Bedlington Terrier will tilt his head and watch each speaker as the test tones play through each speaker.

When it got to the upfirers, his head shot up at the ceiling, stared for a few moments - and then he bolted - having never heard sound come from the ceiling before. We'll often catch him looking at the ceiling during Dolby Atmos movies now.

If it's screwing with the dogs head, considering how good they are with sound directionality - especially beddies - as they are small vermin killing dogs that rely on sound and sight to hunt - it must be working pretty well.

The Bedlington is now part of my setup procedure, I wheel him out with the UMIK and REW.

 

[Godataloss]

5.1 is all you need. Make sure the surrounds are properly placed and you get plenty of 'height' illusion in the sound field.

But then they wouldn't be able to sell you more gear....

Considering it took almost 30 years for consistently good 5.1 mixes to come around, I'd have to agree with you. I think Atmos is really geared to the production side of 'object oriented' video where surround tasks will be handled by software like lighting and texture effects in cgi/video games. That is pure speculation on my part however.

 

[buz]

When it got to the upfirers, his head shot up at the ceiling, stared for a few moments - and then he bolted - having never heard sound come from the ceiling before. We'll often catch him looking at the ceiling during Dolby Atmos movies now.

If it's screwing with the dogs head, considering how good they are with sound directionality - especially beddies - as they are small vermin killing dogs that rely on sound and sight to hunt - it must be working pretty well.

The Bedlington is now part of my setup procedure, I wheel him out with the UMIK and REW.

Is this like the mythical wife in the kitchen enjoying the new cable

 

[ZolaIII]

Really liked opening picture a lot, I usually use hamster allegory.