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Dolby Atmos with headphones, not that simple...

DISCLAIMER - I don't have Atmos.


I agree with what you are saying but Dolby has a "broader" definition for Atmos. They don't say it's ALWAYS multi-channel or that you can always pinpoint the location of the sound. They say something about an "immersive" experience.

I've never heard head-tracking headphones but in theory they could work. Although... I'm in the majority of listeners who can't even get a realistic stereo soundstage with headphones so I doubt they would work perfectly for me.

I tried the old Dolby Headphone once with a Dolby test DVD. Some people were saying you could get surround. I never perceived the sound coming from behind. (And Dolby never made that claim.)

I'm not really a headphone guy and to me headphones are simply a "different experience". I don't expect them to sound like speakers in a room.
If science is not an opinion, when you convolve an audio signal with your personal HRTF and reproduce the result at the same point where the HRTF was measured (supposed in the auditory canal) you will perceive that sound coming exactly from azimuth/elevation to which was the source for measuring the HRTF, obviously within the limits of localization capability of the human.
I hope this is not questioned.
Now, if Atmos is not working for one person, the reasons are to be found in the elements of the specific chain.
The possible culprits are essentially 4, from my point of view (assuming we are talking about headphones listening):
1) You are not listening to Atmos binaural mix, but 2.0 downmix (highly probable seen the mess behind the various ways of distributing / playing Atmos)
2) Atmos encoded with HRTF that corresponds little to the personal one. The human physiognomy is highly variable, consequently it is impossible to establish a universally valid HRTF. There are studies for preference that highlight statistically more preferred HRTF, but we are still in the field of statistics so there is inevitably margin for incompatibility.
Furthermore, measuring an HRTF perfectly is only possible with dummy heads that have microphones at the end of the auditory canal, exactly where our biological transducer is located. There are two methods for measuring personal HRTF today, that I know:
- with a microphone in the ear (ex. Knowles), which depends on mic calibration accuracy and does not integrate the effect of the auditory canal;
- estimation with a digital photo + neural network, which in addition to depending on photo processing depends on the training of the network;
Therefore the accuracy of the HRTF will always have a margin of uncertainty that can cause perceptual alterations.
3) The processed signal have to be reproduced with linear amplitude and phase headphones to be faithful to the HRTF, but we know that a perfectly linear reproduction system does not exist, so this too will determine further alteration in perception. We also know how most headphones have deliberately non-linear amplitude tuning to provide a good result with non binaural audio (the vast majority). And even where one linearizes the response based on a calibration, there will always be the uncertainty of the calibration to potentially introduce alteration.
Then, headphones in ear and over ear are not the same for binauralization purposes.
4) The mastering of the Atmos tracks is a complicated task, because it has to be compatible with different reproduction system, therefore space inaccuracy could take over if it is not done specifically for binaural.
There are probably also secondary factors, such as bone conduction, but they should affect perception less.
Aforementioned elements, however, are more than determinants in spatial perception, so it is clear that discourse cannot be generalized.
Atmos, as long as others immersive encoder, works as long as the chain is effective.
How statistically effective it is I don't think we can determine it... but for this very reason it seems absurd to me to say it is a lie and doesn't exist.
Even the earth is spherical but it does not seem to the eyes...
 
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My contribution:
- on an Android phone w/o own Dolby Atmos decoder (I have a Nothing Phone 2): only Amazon Music comes with an own/embedded decoder, thus enabling Atmos listening via bluetooth headphones, for example. Tidal and Apple seem to rely on a decoder to be provided by the Android OS.
- the Amazon Music app on Android seems to not synchronize playlists with the cloud...

I'm considering the idea of buying a second hand iPhone to try if this is a solution for listening to Atmos (Apple Music) both on-the-go, and in desktop mode by connecting a DAC+headphone amp.
 
Is there anybody out there (ref. Pink Floyd ;)) that has an iPhone and uses it to listen to music in Atmos, by connecting to a DAC&amp? Thanks!
 
If you stream through smartphone there are Amazon Music, Apple Music and Tidal that offer Atmos tracks in binaural format, so the ideal for headphones directly connected (wired or Bluetooth).
If you need to use a DAC + headphones amplifier the most immediate solution at the moment is to use Apple Music on Mac, with Dolby Atmos option set to Always On.
When you use a smartphone as a source for USB DAC, it is not entirely clear which format is being played, so you are not very sure that you have Atmos.
Hi @LionIT,
are you aware of any thread (on this or on other forums) which I can follow to get updates to the possibilities of listening (stereo) Atmos on headphones? Thanks!

For example: I just discovered that I can hear in Dolby Atmos from Windows by using the Apple Music "app" (I mean the one from the Microsoft Store)! :cool::cool::cool:
And when I listen via the external DAC/HeadphonesAmp it also looks OK. At least, the switch "Always On" for Atmos in the app is not greyed out or whatever.
 
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Millions of people around the world already have access to Dolby Atmos for headphones through a combination of the iPhone, Apple Music’s Atmos catalog, and Apple’s AirPods Pro2 or Max. With the AirPods Pro2 in particular, the experience is impressive, thanks to its excellent sound quality and seamless head-tracking. I recently switched from Samsung to Apple specifically for their Spatial Audio and I don't regret it.

That said, Atmos on headphones can be hit or miss. On some albums, it adds a new dimension and sounds fantastic. On others, it feels more like a distraction than an improvement. Overall, I’m impressed and hopeful the experience will continue to get better.
 
So, I'm analyzing the options available to enjoy the Dolby Atmos tracks on headphones connected to a DAC / AMP with USB input.
Actually the streaming platforms that offer Atmos are Amazon Music, Apple Music and Tidal.
However, the matter is not that simple...
For the ideal listening of Dolby Atmos on headphones, a render that uses binaural metadata should be used.
But actually only the Dolby AC4 IMS format constitutes a 2-channel flow encoded in binaural with proper distance metadata.
Here an excerpt from a thread on Dolby Professional Support forum:

Avid also provides an excellent explanation of the Dolby format on the various platforms.
In this discussion on Reddit, several users confirm that Apple Spatial Renderer sounds different from the Dolby Binaural one (when headphones are used) probably due to the lack of use of distance metadata.
In fact, Audiomovers sells this add-on for manufacturers to monitor in real time how the track sounds on Apple Renderer.
Here is a couple of YouTube videos of Atmos mixing engineers illustrating the different options: video #1, video #2

Other online sources however seem to clarify that Tidal also offers AC4 IMS like Amazon.
Here a very very exhaustive article that summarise everything.

Leaving aside the customization of HRTF offered by Apple with its pods, from this information one would think that the ideal option for Dolby Atmos in headphones is Amazon Music and Tidal.
But there is one aspect that I cannot clarify.
These apps certainly provide the stream in AC4 IMS when used on mobile devices, as they are 99.9% connected to a headset.
But if I use a DAC / AMP for USB headset connected to a PC, for example, what happens?

It is known that Dolby Access app must be installed from MS Store to use Dolby Atmos on Windows. Since 24H2 version, however, Microsoft has removed the AC3 / EAC3 codecs. This is not a big problem because if ask ChatGPT how to install them it seems feasible (and also for AC4).
However, this should point out that Dolby Access on Windows has a renderer for EAC3, which as explained initially does not use metadata for binaural and therefore is not the best option for headphones.

So it would seem that the best option to listen to Dolby Atmos on a DAC / AMP with USB is to connect it to a mobile device, but it is still not clear how the streaming app detects that device and what Dolby format it streams consequently.
And it should be added that the audio engine of the devices may not be Bit Perfect and may have non-optimal performance in the Sample Rate Conversion or Limiter (possibly present / used).

It is really boring for a user to have to dig so deeply ... Obviously we are still in a phase of development and transition where standards have not established themselves, And where, however, large companies do not want to pay licenses and therefore develop proprietary solutions, favoring the heterogenization of the market (see the recent announcement by Samsung / Google)

What are your experiences?
Does anyone have newer or more in-depth information?
Are there state-of-the-art solutions that escape me?
Hi there, I have been listening to DTS X (the other Dolby Atmos, the better version) and it is really good. The cool thing is it's 2.0 compatible through the use of psychoacoustics algorithms and some DSP processing it gets you 75 percent of the way there. I was really surprised because I have a high end 2.0 and surround sound Dolby Atmos system.

Coolest thing is with DTS X is the space, atmosphere and space between everything in the soundstage, kind of what one experiences in 24 bit audio.

Also these new codecs are being embraced and used by people unlike 5.1 which didn't ever fully really take off.

im just about to try "Atmos" headphones headphones.
 
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If you need to use a DAC + headphones amplifier the most immediate solution at the moment is to use Apple Music on Mac, with Dolby Atmos option set to Always On.
When you use a smartphone as a source for USB DAC, it is not entirely clear which format is being played, so you are not very sure that you have Atmos.
Any update on this?
Thanks!
 
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