Dolby Atmos Critique Video

[FriedChicken]

I am sorry but I have a 5.1.2 system and love Atmos music. It is like every other tech. You can get wonderful results or crap depending on the skills of the person using it. When done welll, it significantly improves on stereo. Bob James Feel Like Making Live is a wonderful experience. Sounds like you are in the studio. I have the 24/192 stereo file and the Atmos is a much better experience even though the stereo track is excellent. Anything from 2L or TRPTK sounds phenomenal in Atmos even if I do not like the music. Eric Clapton’s The Lady in the Balcony has a wonderful Atmos track in addition to phenomenal 4K hdr video. Sure there are terrible mixes, the Rolling Stones Grrr comes to mind. Unlistenable. But when done well it is phenomenal.

When you say this, do you mean atmos mixed music tracks, or atmos decoded stereo tracks?
And since you threw that "skills of the person using it", what's your setup? I suspect your stereo setup might not be as good as it should be if you claim music sounds better in atmos on your 5.1.2 system.

Lead, follow or get out of the way.

This is a ludicrous assertion in this context. Stereo is a timeless standard. Nothing about atmos suggests it's not a here today gone tomorrow type of thing, and by my listening is inferior to pure stereo for music listening even in an optimal environment. Dolby's attempts at equating atmos with a leap forward in audio akin to stereo doesn't just deserve opposition, but demands it.

The Huxleyan model of tech can die.

 

[Zensō]

Why can’t it be that a given mixer/producer/recording engineer enjoys the tech and want to use it. Why does it have to be that they succumb to marketing hype? It isn’t a black and white proposition as you seem to be implying. Use it or don’t. If it fails, so be it. If it succeed, you can have your niche or you can jump in. The market ultimately will decide regardless of any push. Look at the failure of MQA, a few years ago I heard the same thing about electric vehicles. Too expensive, nobody wants them. Now look. All the OEMs are jumping on board. That is how the market works.

I don't disagree with any of that. To state my position concisely: the hyperbolic marketing by Dolby, Apple et al is not backed up by the actual user experience for most people, which is a consideration if you're a music producer or studio owner trying to decide where to invest your time and money (both of which are not unlimited).

Just for perspective, upgrading a home studio to Atmos could easily cost $50K if done properly. You can probably see why some might be squeamish about whether or not the tech is going to be around in any significant way in 5 years.

 

[Zensō]

So few people would want that means those that want it shouldn’t waste our time?

We're talking past each other. I'm looking at it from the perspective of a music producer, you're looking at it from the perspective of a consumer who enjoys the tech. Both viewpoints are valid. If you like Atmos that's great. As an artist, whether or not I choose to invest the resources to support the technology is a completely different matter.

 

[jhenderson0107]

...That's looking at it from a "regular" consumer's point of view. 1K seems like a ludicrous amount of money to spend on speakers for a lot of people even if it seems like chump change to us "audiophiles"...

That's a fair point. My comment was out of touch with the broad market ("Let them eat cake").

 

[maverickronin]

So few people would want that means those that want it shouldn’t waste our time?

No, that's just a reason why it's probably not going to replace standard stereo music mixes and remain niche like multichannel SACD and DVDA were.

That's a fair point. My comment was out of touch with the broad market ("Let them eat cake").

I mean it's not quite "Let them eat cake". Different people just have different priorities. A lot of people that could comfortably afford a full Atmos setup would choose not to because they aren't as concerned with the audio.

 

[JoeWhip]

Friedchicken, bless your heart but you sound like an audiophile who argues that you can’t hear, or your equipment is not good enough if you do not agree with me. I have two dedicated rooms, one for HT the other for 2 channel. My 2 channel room has damn good if not insanely expensive equipment. I have written about it on another site where I am a contributor. The fact that you think that Atmos mixed files can’t sound better than stereo means nothing to me. The Atmos I play are either Pure Audio Blu rays or MKV files.I do not use Apple.

 

[JoeWhip]

Maverick, if it remains niche, so be it.

 

[jhenderson0107]

...This is a ludicrous assertion in this context. ...

I was shooting for preposterous, but I'll settle for ludicrous.

If Atmos mixes genuinely sound worse when rendered in stereo for most users, then I agree that would be an unacceptable step backwards. But my experience with Atmos mixes hasn't been negative. Generally, I think they sound equal or better than stereo mixes upconverted to surround. I really haven't experimented with playing Atmos mixes in stereo.

 

[JoeWhip]

I play Atmos mixes as Atmos and stereo as stereo.

 

[FriedChicken]

Friedchicken, bless your heart but you sound like an audiophile who argues that you can’t hear, or your equipment is not good enough if you do not agree with me. I have two dedicated rooms, one for HT the other for 2 channel. My 2 channel room has damn good if not insanely expensive equipment. I have written about it on another site where I am a contributor. The fact that you think that Atmos mixed files can’t sound better than stereo means nothing to me. The Atmos I play are either Pure Audio Blu rays or MKV files.I do not use Apple.

Your post was ambiguous.

Are you listening to stereo decoded by atmos or are you listening to music tracks mixed using Atmos (and then obviously decoded by your atmos processor)?

If you look back to my original post in this thread I spelled out very clearly my experience:

For music listening: Pure stereo is king. It can't be beat. I think the Stereo decoded/extended by Atmos sounds better than other surround decoders, but pure direct stereo still handily beats it out.

For movies: Atmos decoded by Atmos (as opposed to DTS-HD or Dolby Digital decoded by Atmos) is actually amazing. It feels like a professional theater.

 

[FriedChicken]

I play Atmos mixes as Atmos and stereo as stereo.

Thank you. This falls in line with my experience. Are you listening to music tracks mixed in Atmos? I have not experienced this yet.

 

[maverickronin]

Also a tangential ramble...

I recognize that multichannel is technically superior, sounds amazing with the right material, and doesn't even have to be super expensive. I just don't have a mch setup because I'm not a big movie fan, so little of my music is available in it, and more often than not play games which wouldn't benefit from spatial audio.

The problem I have with Atmos is Dolby's campaign to make it replace stereo and other standard, open formats. I don't think that they'll succeed, but if they did it would have a chilling effect on the indie market and stifle creativity with monetary gatekeeping.

 

[Zensō]

The problem I have with Atmos is Dolby's campaign to make it replace stereo and other standard, open formats. I don't think that they'll succeed, but if they did it would have a chilling effect on the indie market and stifle creativity with monetary gatekeeping.

This is an important point. It feels eerily similar to my misgivings around MQA, but on a much larger scale.

 

[JoeWhip]

Yes, I listen to music tracks mixed to Atmos. I gave examples before. I have a few 2L Pure Audio Blu rays, Yello’s point, which is great fun. I have also been evaluating Atmos mixes for an audiophile label which will be putting out their first Atmos release which will be available as stereo DXD, DSD and other pcm variants. I do not take stereo files and play with them myself.

 

[JoeWhip]

This is an important point. It feels eerily similar to my misgivings around MQA, but on a much larger scale.

I would not be in favor of it replacing stereo mixes. I believe in choices.

 

[Curvature]

The Huxleyan model of tech

I'm not familiar.

Is this a reference to Aldous Huxley?

 

[FriedChicken]

I'm not familiar.

Is this a reference to Aldous Huxley?

Yes, his novel "Brave New World". It's a term I coined, where essentially nobody owns anything, and overlords give us whatever and everyone accepts it and is grateful.

It refers to the subscription based model that technology has taken on (pioneered by google and its cloud method). This contrasts with an older model where something is purchased and owned. Most notably in OS updates (you used to buy OS updates), and the insidious business model pioneered by google and employed by facebook, discord, and a host of other cloud platforms, where the user doesn't actually pay for the service, changes are rolled out and accepted for lack of choice. Dolby, to a lesser extent, is trying to get everyone to simply accept its Atmos anywhere and everywhere. This was in reference to jhenderson's comment of "accept what's given or die", which is why I brought it up.

 

[IPunchCholla]

You don’t need “all walls dead” at all. I bet that would sound as bad in immersive as in 2ch.

And I read a lot of kvetching that seems to come mostly people who haven’t heard an immersive setup geared to music.

I know I haven’t heard a good setup. I’ve heard my own and several other peoples pretty bad 5.1 setups. Given the limitations of our rooms, I don’t see more channels helping with that. But as long as it mixes down to 2.2 or 3.1, I’m good.

 

[Curvature]

I would not be in favor of it replacing stereo mixes. I believe in choices.

Is it right to use the word choice when there is a push to take over the market?

There were always competing audio formats and technologies. The trouble was always with the proprietary technologies that limited access to content either for the listener or the artist. Exclusivity arrangements, limited distribution, subscriptions, etc. It causes problems down the line.

In pro audio, the rise and fall of DAWs and proprietary formats has killed access to old projects.

 

[JoeWhip]

Nothing remains the same. Time moves on. Look at TV. Can’t get component video. Only hdmi. Shifting standards. Just the way things are. b