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Does Streamer Matter when using External DAC?

Mehdiem

Active Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2022
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I currently own NODE (Gen 3) and I'm interested in CX100 only for its display (to see the cover arts). I'm wondering if moving from NODE (optical output) to CX100 (or any other streamer such as Eversolo] while using external DAC (RME ADI) would result in any change in sound quality and in what way?
If I get the same quality as my Node I would be happy.

What I want to understand, in general, is that if I get digital out of my streamer to use it with my external DAC, does is really matter what streamer I use (concerning sonic aspect)?

My current setup:
RME - ADI2 (preamp, and DAC)
NAD C298 (amp)
Streamer (Node gen 3)
KEF LS50 Meta
SVS Micro Sub
 
I currently own NODE (Gen 3) and I'm interested in CX100 only for its display (to see the cover arts). I'm wondering if moving from NODE (optical output) to CX100 (or any other streamer such as Eversolo] while using external DAC (RME ADI) would result in any change in sound quality and in what way?
If I get the same quality as my Node I would be happy.

What I want to understand, in general, is that if I get digital out of my streamer to use it with my external DAC, does is really matter what streamer I use (concerning sonic aspect)?

My current setup:
RME - ADI2 (preamp, and DAC)
NAD C298 (amp)
Streamer (Node gen 3)
KEF LS50 Meta
SVS Micro Sub
No, it shouldn't affect sound quality at all.
 
It shouldn't, but it is possible if there is an error in implementation. Passing the signal unaltered has least scope for error, and any streamer should be capable of this. RME provide a test file so you can check that it reaches the RME unaltered, so you can verify this. Volume control, sample rate conversion and EQ provide more scope for error - I think there was an example of this in the Wiim beta firmware when they first introduced PEQ (since fixed) but I may be misremembering. These fall outside the usual tests here, but some people do check them from time to time and report any issues found.
 
Digital out from any competent streamer (including the Node) should be identical, don't worry about it.
Features and the control App will vary, but as long as you are happy with the interface and controls then just listen to the music :)
 
If the streamer controls volume, there may be a processor involved. Depending on the implementation it may or may not interfere with the signal. For example Yamaha WXC-50 downsamples on SPDIF output even if it's in just a streamer direct mode. Doubt it will be audible though.
 
I currently own NODE (Gen 3) and I'm interested in CX100 only for its display (to see the cover arts). I'm wondering if moving from NODE (optical output) to CX100 (or any other streamer such as Eversolo] while using external DAC (RME ADI) would result in any change in sound quality and in what way?
If I get the same quality as my Node I would be happy.

What I want to understand, in general, is that if I get digital out of my streamer to use it with my external DAC, does is really matter what streamer I use (concerning sonic aspect)?

My current setup:
RME - ADI2 (preamp, and DAC)
NAD C298 (amp)
Streamer (Node gen 3)
KEF LS50 Meta
SVS Micro Sub

Optical output sends clock timing thus it can be affected by jitter from the source but not affected by EMI/RF
USB to DAC is a better choice as the data is sent in a balanced (D+/D-) and the voltage (Vbus) is ignored.
Good DACs control the clock and the protocol is asynchronous thus less prone to jitter.
Optical is also limited while USB can play (depends on your DAC) extreme Hi-Res PCM and DSD.
If you can listen before you buy your ears will tell you the truth.
 
Optical output sends clock timing thus it can be affected by jitter from the source but not affected by EMI/RF
USB to DAC is a better choice as the data is sent in a balanced (D+/D-) and the voltage (Vbus) is ignored.
Good DACs control the clock and the protocol is asynchronous thus less prone to jitter.
Optical is also limited while USB can play (depends on your DAC) extreme Hi-Res PCM and DSD.
If you can listen before you buy your ears will tell you the truth.
Jitter has been a solved problem for audio for decades - even if there was ever a time it was not. Jitter related distortion on the output of any halfway decent DAC is far below the level of audibility, as shown in measurement after measurement on this site.

And while USB can play high res files, most of the content of the bandwidth of those files higher than 20kHz contain ultrasonic noise. And even if they didn't, neither your ears (nor any other human's) are able to detect the difference between those files and 24/48.
 
Jitter has been a solved problem for audio for decades - even if there was ever a time it was not. Jitter related distortion on the output of any halfway decent DAC is far below the level of audibility, as shown in measurement after measurement on this site.

And while USB can play high res files, most of the content of the bandwidth of those files higher than 20kHz contain ultrasonic noise. And even if they didn't, neither your ears (nor any other human's) are able to detect the difference between those files and 24/48.
Jitter is solved by using PLL and not all DACs are created equally.
Some have better handling than others.
The Hi-Res files are not for ultrasonic frequencies but they give headroom for sound reconstruction. You know, all kind all filters applied.
99% percent cannot even hear above 16KHz but ask any mastering and mixing engineer and they'll tell you why they work in 96Khz or more.
 
Jitter is solved by using PLL and not all DACs are created equally.
They are not - you are right. But in all the DACs measured here I've not seen one that performed badly enough for jitter to be audible. Perhaps there are one or two right down at the bottom of the red section of the performance charts that I've not seen.


The Hi-Res files are not for ultrasonic frequencies but they give headroom for sound reconstruction. You know, all kind all filters applied.
And once you can filter flat to 20kHz and have the 20kHz to 24kHz (of that 24/48 sample rate) to roll off using the correct steep filter with good attenuation - then more headroom doesn't give audible benefits.

ask any mastering and mixing engineer and they'll tell you why they work in 96Khz or more.
Because the process of mastering and mixing results in multiple stages of DSP and resampling. And while the errors arising from 24/48 are well below audibility - when repeated over and over again, can build up to something worse.

For reproduction (which we are concerned with here) that is not an issue. And I'll note that Toslink is already capable of double that mastering/mixing rate you mentioned in any case.
 
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I currently own NODE (Gen 3) and I'm interested in CX100 only for its display (to see the cover arts). I'm wondering if moving from NODE (optical output) to CX100 (or any other streamer such as Eversolo] while using external DAC (RME ADI) would result in any change in sound quality and in what way?
If I get the same quality as my Node I would be happy.

What I want to understand, in general, is that if I get digital out of my streamer to use it with my external DAC, does is really matter what streamer I use (concerning sonic aspect)?

My current setup:
RME - ADI2 (preamp, and DAC)
NAD C298 (amp)
Streamer (Node gen 3)
KEF LS50 Meta
SVS Micro Sub
Hi there. Curious what direction you ended up going as I'm in the same boat as you. I'd like to get a streamer to feed USB to my Pontus II DAC and wondering if the units differ in regard to sonics with that scenario. I know many here will say competent transports should sound identical but reading reviews of Lumin, Eversolo, etc. vs lower cost units have me wondering!
 
Stop reading reviews and start looking at their measurements.
Keith
 
Hi there. Curious what direction you ended up going as I'm in the same boat as you. I'd like to get a streamer to feed USB to my Pontus II DAC and wondering if the units differ in regard to sonics with that scenario. I know many here will say competent transports should sound identical but reading reviews of Lumin, Eversolo, etc. vs lower cost units have me wondering!
That was the intention. Do yourself a favor and perform a level-matched blind test. Your wallet will thank me.

Buy the streamer with the best features/ergonomics for your setup. Stop worrying about sound quality, because a used Chromecast Audio will cover that.

In my case I wanted Roon and Chromecast or Apple streaming. So I could use it, then my wife/guests could use it. Cambridge Audio makes a very solid streaming platform. But I also have a Raspberry Pi running ROPIEEXL and a Wiim.
 
That was the intention. Do yourself a favor and perform a level-matched blind test. Your wallet will thank me.

Buy the streamer with the best features/ergonomics for your setup. Stop worrying about sound quality, because a used Chromecast Audio will cover that.

In my case I wanted Roon and Chromecast or Apple streaming. So I could use it, then my wife/guests could use it. Cambridge Audio makes a very solid streaming platform. But I also have a Raspberry Pi running ROPIEEXL and a Wiim.
I really wasn't meaning to "go there" with my question but even the WiiM Mini vs WiiM Pro do sound different feeding my DAC with the same coax cable, using Qobuz with the same tracks, and both devices set to fixed volume/no eq. Are their transport measurements very different?
 
I really wasn't meaning to "go there" with my question but even the WiiM Mini vs WiiM Pro do sound different feeding my DAC with the same coax cable, using Qobuz with the same tracks, and both devices set to fixed volume/no eq. Are their transport measurements very different?
I don't think the Mini has coax out did you mean optical? You sure EQ is disabled, both on WiFi since the Mini doesn't have ethernet?

Edit: Measure with multimeter on DAC output to make sure they're level matched. The Mini is -3dB on optical out , not sure about the PRO. Usual blind listening, very doubtful there's any difference if everything is matched as they're sending light pulses.
 
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I don't think the Mini has coax out did you mean optical? You sure EQ is disabled, both on WiFi since the Mini doesn't have ethernet?
Sorry yes, optical on Mini, coax on Pro is the only variable. Yes, wi-fi and no EQ on either. Neither set to fixed resolution. This was just one example I know of but yes, I hear small differences between them feeding the same DAC.
 
Well there you go the Mini is -3dB on optical out.
There you go indeed! Always look for the obvious solution first, rather than the one that implies a major undiscovered phenomenon in audio science.
 
Well there you go the Mini is -3dB on optical out.
Back to the OP's question, so the insinuation is if you tested multiple streamer transports, all with fixed audio/no EQ or filters, connected to the same DAC with the same cable that they would sound identical?
 
Back to the OP's question, so the insinuation is if you tested multiple streamer transports, all with fixed audio/no EQ or filters, connected to the same DAC with the same cable that they would sound identical?
Let me just rewrite that slightly

so the insinuation claim is if you tested multiple streamer transports, all with fixed audio/no EQ or filters, connected to the same DAC with the same cable, and properly level-matched, in the same system, double-blind, that they would sound identical listeners would not be able to reliably tell them apart?

1737491133161.png
 
Let me just rewrite that slightly

so the insinuation claim is if you tested multiple streamer transports, all with fixed audio/no EQ or filters, connected to the same DAC with the same cable, and properly level-matched, in the same system, double-blind, that they would sound identical listeners would not be able to reliably tell them apart?

View attachment 422860
And if they didn't , at least one of them isn't worth considering.
 
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