Does Op-amp Rolling Work?

[MAB]

Blind tests are only subject to the hearing of the person in the blind test, so it is not fool proof in the first place.

I could tell the difference in a blind test with 100% pass rate

I love this April Fools! You have a 100% pass rate for something that isn't foolproof. Brilliant.

 

[Joe Smith]

 

[solderdude]

There is arguing about the 'sound' of op-amps.... and different insights in what constitutes a proper listening test.

 

[Joe Smith]

Yup.

 

[emmodad]

ah, although my gear-building days are long over
still hear the siren call from somewhere deep in a storage unit:
a full stick of OG Signetics 5532s...

 

[Jose Jimenez]

Use compensated op-amps in older McIntosh meter circuits to eliminate the motor-boating heard through the speakers in the 'Watts' mode.

The NE5534 operational amplifier has been very good to me!

 

[olds1959special]

When I changed the NE5532's in my Aiyima A70 Monos to genuine LM4562's (from Digi-Key) which power my JBL L890's in my living room setup, I DID notice a positive change, the sound *seemed* a *tiny* bit smoother and more detailed. Technically superior? No idea, but I heard it. YMMV

 

[MaxwellsEq]

When I changed the NE5532's in my Aiyima A70 Monos to genuine LM4562's (from Digi-Key) which power my JBL L890's in my living room setup, I DID notice a positive change, the sound *seemed* a *tiny* bit smoother and more detailed. Technically superior? No idea, but I heard it. YMMV

Measurements?

 

[olds1959special]

Measurements?

I didn’t take measurements before and after.

 

[antcollinet]

When I changed the NE5532's in my Aiyima A70 Monos to genuine LM4562's (from Digi-Key) which power my JBL L890's in my living room setup, I DID notice a positive change, the sound *seemed* a *tiny* bit smoother and more detailed. Technically superior? No idea, but I heard it. YMMV

But based on sighted listening, yes? In which case perceiving a difference (even when there is nothing in the sound-waves reaching your ears) is fully to be expected. But you already know this.

 

[Bob from Florida]

There is arguing about the 'sound' of op-amps.... and different insights in what constitutes a proper listening test.

The odds of improvement in perceived sound quality is directly proportional to expense. Note - this applies to more than op amps.

 

[solderdude]

It remains fascinating that when one replaces op-amps and the measured performance within and well outside of the audible band does not change in any aspect that people still perceive (hear) differences that simply are not caused by a notable change in the electrical signal.
The latter can be measured with greater accuracy, range, repeatability and well below known audible thresholds (so exact same signal) than any human can ever reach.
Human brain remains a fascinating thing.

 

[CedarX]

Is an op-amp application mostly characterized by “the stuff” (the components) around the op-amp? Unless the op-amp is used in one of its operating range extreme corner—a bad design—, why would rolling an op-amp create any difference?

 

[Jose Jimenez]

Yes.

 

[antcollinet]

I never thought the performance of the Marantz Model 16 and 16B amplifiers counted where it should. Having some spare time, I replaced the LM201 in the front end with newer Burr Brown/TI devices and the apparent difference was noticeable. Going further, I went through upgrading drivers and output transistors. The diodes in series between the output transistors and load were taken out of circuit and 1N4007 diodes were installed between the output and positive and negative supply rails. If you would look at the performance of the old Motorola transistors on the curve tracer you would be saddened. All the capacitors were checked also.

So back to the original thought, when replacing just the 50+ year old opamps there was a noticeable improvement for me when listening through Martin Logan Electrostatics. Was this because of the fabrication methods of newer devices?

Most likely perceptive bias - still - even replacing 50 year old op amps.


You'll never know of course since you can no longer do comparative measurements - or any sort of blind testing.

 

[Jose Jimenez]

Perhaps.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Oh. This is just as bad as some of the other forums.

Are you saying that I am wrong? What makes you such an armchair expert, quick to criticize others using buzzwords and catchphrases. So quick to judge assuming you know best by dismissing my viewpoint without further consideration. Are your opinions more valid than mine, or are you trying to entertain the minions out on the forum with your aggressive and confrontational comment?

Shame on you.

He's saying that without comparing how the amp was performing (objectively) before you worked on it and after, it is impossible to say with any certainty what may or may not have changed.

He certainty wasn't being aggressive or confrontational.

 

[antcollinet]

Oh. This is just as bad as some of the other forums.

Are you saying that I am wrong? What makes you such an armchair expert, quick to criticize others using buzzwords and catchphrases. So quick to judge assuming you know best by dismissing my viewpoint without further consideration. Are your opinions more valid than mine, or are you trying to entertain the minions out on the forum with your aggressive and confrontational comment?

Shame on you.

No, I'm not saying you are wrong - I am giving you the most likely reason for the difference you hear. It is still possible you are hearing a genuine difference, just unlikely. Your amp is rated for 0.1% (-60dB) distortion, and -90dB SNR. That is already inaudible for almost everyone, almost all of the time - so if that applies to you, improving it by swapping op amps won't make it more inaudible.

I'm also pointing out there is no way to know for sure, because the only real way to know is to carry out blind testing, and that is not possible with this type of modification.

We are all subject to perceptive biases - it is happening all the time - it is how our senses work.

And my comment was neither aggressive, nor confrontational. Just answering your question to the best of my ability. Which is what we do here on a science based forum.

 

[Jose Jimenez]

Good stuff.

 

[Jose Jimenez]

Wow.