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Does it matter if an amp has a linear power supply vs switching power supply? Starke AD4.320 vs NCore and ICEedge

paulgyro

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Good day, I'm looking for a new amp and am seriously considering the new breed of Class Ds such as Hypex NCore, ICEPower ICEedge, and the seeming unique Starke Sound AD4.320 with NS600 Class D amp mods.

Starke makes some interesting claims that made me wonder on the effect of the power supply on sound.

It appears that the NCore and ICEedge use switching power supplies (correct me if I'm wrong) where Starke uses a linear. A quick Google search gets hits of a power supply company saying Linear is better for audio due to their low high frequency noise.

Bottom-line should I really care about the type of power supply in an amp or is the implementation of that PS more important? Anything important I'm missing?

Paul
 
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paulgyro

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MakeMineVinyl

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It probably doesn't matter which way you go in most instances, however a good linear supply is the one which is quieter over a switching supply and a linear supply has some small advantages with higher transient power capability. A linear supply is obviously going to be much heavier due to the power transformer, and will be less efficient than a switching supply. Still, you'll be fine going either way. We make both.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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what about battery power supply ? It is true or not that when it is possible to use battery supply ( dac, phono ecc..) it allows better and more stable results compared to main supply ?
Guido
Not necessarily. A power supply that is well designed can be as clean as a battery. The large filter capacitors in a power supply are essentially batteries, although with a lot less storage capacity. In some battery operated gear (especially likely in portable gear), the batteries just supply power to operate a switching power supply which generates the actual rail voltages. Operating high end audio gear from batteries has an 'audiophile mystique' of sorts, but its mostly marketing.
 

DonH56

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Batteries often have much higher resistance than a well-designed power supply, and their voltage changes with use (or even non-use), so I would not say they are better or more stable than a good power supply. I suppose they could reduce the chance of a ground loop...

SMPS typically operate at frequencies well above audio so the noise is way beyond what we can hear; no more 50/60 (or 100/120) Hz hum injection. They can use much smaller capacitors since the charging cycle is so much faster. They also tend to be much smaller, lighter, and cooler than linear supplies, with much higher efficiency. They can radiate noise up into the MHz region so need to be well-shielded.

Linear supplies have a reputation for being more reliable, though I don't have any recent numbers comparing the two, and they are generally much easier to repair.

IME, which does not really include audio designs except in the hobby sense, SMPS often have lower noise and much better transient response than comparable linear supplies, with far less space and heat dissipation. But the type of power supply is usually low on my list of requirements for an amplifier. My old-school leaning is toward linear for longevity, reliability, and repairability, except when I have to move it. :) My last amp and processor purchases both use SMPS and seem to sound OK to me.
 
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restorer-john

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For long term reliability in domestic audio gear, a transformer based supply cannot be beaten.

For delivering a huge amount of power in a lightweight package at low cost, SMPSs are hard to beat.

Seeing Benchmarks results seems hard to argue with them!

Don't believe everything you read on a manufacturer's website...
 

jhaider

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It appears that the NCore and ICEedge use switching power supplies (correct me if I'm wrong) where Starke uses a linear.

There are some Ncore amps with linear ps. Right @MakeMineVinyl? :)

It’s not something I’ve concerned myself with, unless for whatever reason I wanted light weight. Then SMPS wins.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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There are some Ncore amps with linear ps. Right @MakeMineVinyl? :)

It’s not something I’ve concerned myself with, unless for whatever reason I wanted light weight. Then SMPS wins.
I believe ATI makes some Ncore amps with linear supplies.
 

Madhuski

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I’ve got the 4.320. It powers my 4 ceilings speakers most of the time, but I did swap it in place of a Nad M28 which peers the base...the 4.320 had no issues powering a pair of revel 328be’s.
 

jokan

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Not necessarily. A power supply that is well designed can be as clean as a battery. The large filter capacitors in a power supply are essentially batteries, although with a lot less storage capacity. In some battery operated gear (especially likely in portable gear), the batteries just supply power to operate a switching power supply which generates the actual rail voltages. Operating high end audio gear from batteries has an 'audiophile mystique' of sorts, but its mostly marketing.

if possible I would like to "Double like" your statement as my experience tells me the exact same thing as your words do. There isn't a onestop shopping answer to PSU designs as isolation is equally important as regulation, switching PSU's generate inherent MHz vibrations, hopefully Mhz and not Khz. That's where ultra high end manufacturers spend a lot of money to isolate and regulate noise generators.
 
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paulgyro

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I’ve got the 4.320. It powers my 4 ceilings speakers most of the time, but I did swap it in place of a Nad M28 which peers the base...the 4.320 had no issues powering a pair of revel 328be’s.
Wow you've got some great amps! Do you hear any difference between the NAD and Starke? Your M28 is one of the best amps on the planet.
 

Madhuski

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Wow you've got some great amps! Do you hear any difference between the NAD and Starke? Your M28 is one of the best amps on the planet.

I’m getting more agnostic about amps; played within their limits it’s very difficult to tell the two apart.
 

dfuller

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Linear (without a regulator IC) has some advantages in the transient power delivery department as well as the ease of service department (switchers are more difficult to service and often require a high frequency scope, and don't display the same failure symptoms as a failing linear supply, plus they don't rely on oversight ICs). They also don't inject RF junk back into the power line (a lot of cheaper SMPS designs do this) which can cause issues elsewhere.

Otherwise, SMPS is better - lower power, less audible noise leakage, more efficient, lighter.
 

Doodski

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(switchers are more difficult to service and often require a high frequency scope, and don't display the same failure symptoms as a failing linear supply, plus they don't rely on oversight ICs).
I've repaired thousands of PWM supplies in car audio amplifiers. The major issue with servicing a PWM power supply is not having parts and not having service literature too. If the repair person has proper parts on hand, literature, proper size iron, Oscope and hand tools for working the PCB gauge then the job goes well. Most repair depots don't stock replacement parts although becoming a national service depot usually means a full stock of parts and literature with enough units of service to make it worthwhile to tool up for the type of job they are.
 

Madhuski

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Exactly as I would hope! In my view amps should just be a "wire with gain " and shouldn't color the sound at all.

I do like the M28 can take care of all 7 speakers and only weighs 45ish pounds.

A few years back I had the ATI 6005...was not fun installing that beast
 

musicforcities

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Good day, I'm looking for a new amp and am seriously considering the new breed of Class Ds such as Hypex NCore, ICEPower ICEedge, and the seeming unique Starke Sound AD4.320 with NS600 Class D amp mods.

Starke makes some interesting claims that made me wonder on the effect of the power supply on sound.

It appears that the NCore and ICEedge use switching power supplies (correct me if I'm wrong) where Starke uses a linear. A quick Google search gets hits of a power supply company saying Linear is better for audio due to their low high frequency noise.

Bottom-line should I really care about the type of power supply in an amp or is the implementation of that PS more important? Anything important I'm missing?

Paul
Read Amir’s recent review of a Starke amp…I would not trust anything Starke says
 
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