Does it make sense to recommend integrated amps any more?

[jsilvela]

Even advising someone who is an inveterate stereo proponent, I think a preamp + amp solution will prevent headaches down the road.

I had always used integrated amps, but when my Cambridge Audio integrated started flaking out last year, I did not get a new one.
The main reason for that was that in my experience integrated amps will generally fail on the volume and channel selector knobs, and the amplification will go to waste.

So instead I bought a Hypex amp and a small preamp.
Recently I bought my first sub. An RCA splitter out of the preamp was all I needed to start experimenting.

I see so many queries at ASR from people with integrated amps about subwoofer integration.
And there is no good answer for them, because the real problem is the high-pass filtering of the main speakers.

Instead, if you have a preamp + amp, easy, you put a miniDSP 2x4 out of the preamp to handle the high-pass filtering and the subwoofer-out.
If you have an amp only, then a miniDSP flex is a one-stop box.

Today, many people can be well served with a small DSP with volume, or mix and match if they want phono, analog-in etc.
With one of those, even if you later decide to get an AVR, your small preamp / DSP with volume can find good use for a desktop system or to feed actives.

Are integrated amps still a god idea?

 

[egellings]

Separates allow more variety in equipment hookups (various preamps paired with various power amps) than all-in-one (integrated) amps do. I think that if properly designed, integrated amps can sound good. The only possible problem I could see is that in an integrated amp, large power amp output swings could cause the power amp section's supply voltage to bounce around a bit, and if that voltage also supplies the preamp section, and the preamp's power supply rejection ratio is not very good, then there could be an undesirable interaction between the two sections.

 

[Killingbeans]

The main reason for that was that in my experience integrated amps will generally fail on the volume and channel selector knobs, and the amplification will go to waste.

I think it's pretty rare to see those components fail completely? And even if a good cleaning doesn't bring them back to life, is it really not worth paying a technician to replace them?

 

[jsilvela]

I think it's pretty rare to see those components fail completely? And even if a good cleaning doesn't bring them back to life, is it really not worth paying a technician to replace them?

Oh, long family history here. Yes, cleaning and sometimes repair shop can help, but the same integrated amp may fail later.
I've sworn off ever buying anything Onkyo because of unreliability and mediocre repair service.

My point is, if you were getting something new, wouldn't a pre + an amp be a better idea?

 

[Killingbeans]

My point is, if you were getting something new, wouldn't a pre + an amp be a better idea?

I'd go for active speakers with digital inputs.

 

[LTig]

Instead, if you have a preamp + amp, easy, you put a miniDSP 2x4 out of the preamp to handle the high-pass filtering and the subwoofer-out.
If you have an amp only, then a miniDSP flex is a one-stop box.

Even better is to skip the poweramp and use active speakers.

 

[Overseas]

Are integrated amps still a god idea?

I dunno if it is a GOD idea.

But that is a general question, like 'should I get married?'. Well, depends who's asking, who is the target, goals, circumstances, conditions...

I have a shortlist of pricey integrated that seem very good idea to me. Not to mention a solid pair of speakers that can make one forget sw (also depends on the room).

 

[jsilvela]

I dunno if it is a GOD idea.

But that is a general question, like 'should I get married?'. Well, depends who's asking, who is the target, goals, circumstances, conditions...

I have a shortlist of pricey integrated that seem very good idea to me. Not to mention a solid pair of speakers that can make one forget sw (also depends on the room).

God answer

 

[ZolaIII]

Well it depends of amp, who is buying and what are the expectations with baseline the price.
Look at integrated just as fun bonus if and as long it works satisfactory, you always have solo amplifier of it when it doesn't anymore satisfy you as such or it stops functioning.
I always try to be honest and appreciate understanding.
Classic desktop PC is still a most flexible and best learning platform even if you really don't want to use it in audio reproduction.
Simple filters as high pass can be analog implemented in a form of patch cable or jack.

high-pass-filter

There are active sub's with such integrated and there are those with DSP PEQ and filters integration.
A MiniDSP isn't all that flexible after all.

 

[Steven Holt]

It depends on the integrated amp. Would you refuse the MA5300?

 

[Doodski]

Integrated amps are transforming into DACs and vice versa. If there is a switch or a pot there will be service required sometime. People want one good DAC in a pre-amp box with DSP and multiple inputs and sub out.

 

[restorer-john]

Nothing wrong with integrated or separate. But if you go for integrated, go for flexibility- plenty of inputs and outputs, preamp-power amp links, processor loops etc.

IMO, it's difficult to go past the upper tier Yamaha integrateds for flexibility, performance, looks and reliability.

 

[posvibes]

I have always used integrated amplifiers and old school receivers and still do and they have all done great service up until my last purchase.

Although for a while now I have been using powered monitors I keep the integrated amplifiers around for my small number of passive speakers that I still have and love.

Currently I have an ageing but still very serviceable Cambridge 651A Azur that I bought at a throw out price and provided me with what were good connectivity options including USB for computer streaming and Ipod input, as well as pre-out and subwoofer out, neither of which have I used.

I admit to having a Hugh Dean type design of integrated that is a tag strip layout that provides a "tube" like sound although I am not especially aware of exactly what that is or how it manifests itself but I suspect it may be in some mellifluous distortion but I don't tend to use it all too often and I can listen to it without feeling guilty but prefer my Cambridge.

My last purchase a few years ago was a Quad Vena and although having a 45 watts per side into 8 ohm is not particularly powerful but more than enough for me. It has great connectivity options including Coax, 2 x Optical, I x USB, Bluetooth, 2 x AUX, Sub-out, pre-out and headphone input. So I could use it in its own right, or as a preamp/DAC to my powered monitors.

It was a run out model before being replaced by the Vena and priced accordingly.

It developed out of the blue a plastic bag scrunching rubbing distortion in the right channel that continues to appear after the amp has played for a few hours and I am in the process of dropping it for repair and hopefully having it being able to be repaired. As it is out of warranty the repair may end up being priced more than the the price I paid for the amplifier. In which case I will probably forego the repair and relegate it to pre-amp/ headphone duties.

It's the first piece of kit that I have ever had that really let me down, and it's a shame because I love the look of it, in a shelf it looks less hi-fi'ey and I am more about that these days and I am tossing up whether to splash out in future and get something substantial like a Yamaha AS-501 or maybe just stick with Aiyima or Topping and the like that in comparison with the Vena as far as reliability may not be so far off the speed as comparable products.

 

[Steven Holt]

upper tier Yamaha integrateds

Where does the upper tier start? 501? 701? 1100?

 

[restorer-john]

Where does the upper tier start? 501? 701? 1100?

Their integrateds are all very similar, except for power, features and build.

If a USB input is required, it is AS-801 and up. The 701/501/301 all have/had digital inputs but no USB.

 

[jsilvela]

IMO, it's difficult to go past the upper tier Yamaha integrateds for flexibility, performance, looks and reliability.

Oh I love Yamahas. I have a 15 year old Yamaha I inherited in my home office. Built like a tank.

Nothing wrong with integrated or separate. But if you go for integrated, go for flexibility- plenty of inputs and outputs, preamp-power amp links, processor loops etc.

Huh, right. To be honest I would not have known how to check for those features. Processor loops ... that's how one could hook up a DSP for Room EQ?

Looked at the back panel of the AS-801 you mentioned. How do I find if it has processor loop? Would that be the Rec Out / In?

 

[jsilvela]

Integrated amps are transforming into DACs and vice versa. If there is a switch or a pot there will be service required sometime. People want one good DAC in a pre-amp box with DSP and multiple inputs and sub out.

Good points.
In DSPs/DACs with volume, would that not be digitally controlled, rather than via pot?
I've only owned one so I don't know, but at least the volume in mine seems to be digital.

 

[jsilvela]

It depends on the integrated amp. Would you refuse the MA5300?

Oh I would never refuse a gift
Never owned or heard a McIntosh, would definitely be curious.
But, if price were no objection, would one not go for a McIntosh AV processor for even greater flexibility?

 

[Desmo]

Oh I love Yamahas. I have a 15 year old Yamaha I inherited in my home office. Built like a tank.


Huh, right. To be honest I would not have known how to check for those features. Processor loops ... that's how one could hook up a DSP for Room EQ?

Looked at the back panel of the AS-801 you mentioned. How do I find if it has processor loop? Would that be the Rec Out / In?

Look for anything with a tape monitor function (not record) or something with a pre-out and a power in.

In europe on of the best budget options is the Audiolab 6000A or 6000A play. It has a pre-out and a power in. The DAC inside it is not bad either.

 

[LTig]

To be honest I would not have known how to check for those features. Processor loops ... that's how one could hook up a DSP for Room EQ?

Yes.

Looked at the back panel of the AS-801 you mentioned. How do I find if it has processor loop? Would that be the Rec Out / In?

Rec Out / In is a tape loop. Processor loop means Preamp Out / Power Amp In.