Does frequency response of speakers change with volume?

[jensgk]

Does anyone have some example measurements as to how typical speaker FR changes with volume?

I know that Amir test speakers at 86dB and 96dB, but how does it work at low volume?

The reason that I am asking, is a discussion I've seen on which speakers/hifi equipment sounds best at low volume.

I know about the Loudness phenomenon and the Equal-loudness contours (Fletcher–Munson curves), but are there any Hifi-systems, that sound better at low volumes , deliberately or non-deliberately, by compensating FR by volume, according to the Equal-loudness contours?

 

[charleski]

I think this is some of what @hardisj is looking to measure with the response linearity plots in his reviews. He references them to 76dB, and I suspect this is because going lower than that would result in too much interference from ambient sound.

 

[Doodski]

I know about the Loudness phenomenon and the Equal-loudness contours (Fletcher–Munson curves), but are there any Hifi-systems, that sound better at low volumes , deliberately or non-deliberately, by compensating FR by volume, according to the Equal-loudness contours?

Yamaha offers their variable loudness control. It compensates as the volume level is varied.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Speakers typically don't change their response significantly unless they reach their limit. But many may still sound better at lower volume in most rooms due to excess reflections at higher volumes.

Some may also be tuned with more or less bass in a way that makes them work more or less well at a given sound level.

 

[tomtoo]

Of speakers not so much, but that of your ears a lot.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Yes they do. Just look at some of Erin's speaker reviews and you'll see the FR curve jumps around quite a lot depending on volume, and that's mainly low frequencies being unable to be played as loudly as mid and highs as power levels increase. That's on top of increased levels of distortion in the lows and the non linear way humans perceive increases in loudness in the lower frequencies.

 

[sigbergaudio]

Yes they do. Just look at some of Erin's speaker reviews and you'll see the FR curve jumps around quite a lot depending on volume, and that's mainly low frequencies being unable to be played as loudly as mid and highs as power levels increase. That's on top of increased levels of distortion in the lows and the non linear way humans perceive increases in loudness in the lower frequencies.

"Speakers typically don't change their response significantly unless they reach their limit"

 

[abdo123]

Speakers typically don't change their response significantly unless they reach their limit. But many may still sound better at lower volume in most rooms due to excess reflections at higher volumes.

I think this is more myth than fact.

 

[sigbergaudio]

I think this is more myth than fiction.

I assume you mean more myth than fact?

I didn't say reflections vanish if you lower the volume, in fact in-room measurements support that by looking more or less the same at different volume levels. But it's still my experience that reflections (especially in room with long decay times) are more troublesome at higher volume levels, making listening less enjoyable.

 

[abdo123]

I assume you mean more myth than fact?

I didn't say reflections vanish if you lower the volume, in fact in-room measurements support that by looking more or less the same at different volume levels. But it's still my experience that reflections (especially in room with long decay times) are more troublesome at higher volume levels, making listening less enjoyable.

I don't think your experience has anything to do with the reflections. not that your experience is invalid or incorrect.

 

[cochlea]

Yamaha offers their variable loudness control. It compensates as the volume level is varied.

I have an A-S501, and the loudness adjustment has to be the most unintuitive knob ever put on an amp.

 

[Head_Unit]

which speakers/hifi equipment sounds best at low volume.

As a loudspeaker engineer I'll second those who chimed in that speakers' response doesn't really change until higher volume. I think what happens is some speakers interact with the room in ways that give more bass in particular, so at lower volumes they still have more bass, and from Fletcher-Munson they sound better.
- This is assuming modest or quiet volumes.
- Possibly directivity affecting the mid/high reflections and level, could be.
- Dr. Earl Geddes has maintained some distortions our sensitivity changes with level, that could be a factor.
But mostly I think it's about Fletcher-Munson, kudos to Yamaha for their so-intelligent variable loudness, and BOO HISS that I guess they remove that on upper products (to be more "purist" I suppose)

 

[Ultrasonic]

The RME ADI-2 DAC has a form of frequency response compensation that varies with volume.

 

[Ultrasonic]

As a loudspeaker engineer I'll second those who chimed in that speakers' response doesn't really change until higher volume. I think what happens is some speakers interact with the room in ways that give more bass in particular,

How would that happen?

 

[sigbergaudio]

I don't think your experience has anything to do with the reflections. not that your experience is invalid or incorrect.

So what do you think is the reason / cause?

 

[abdo123]

So what do you think is the reason / cause?

maybe the speakers can't get loud. maybe the piece of music has a low crest factor / dynamic range and is not meant to be played loud. maybe you just dislike loud music.

If you know the speakers are definitely not a bottleneck, then you can easily compare the experience vs a pair of headphones.

 

[sigbergaudio]

maybe the speakers can't get loud. maybe the piece of music has a low crest factor / dynamic range and is not meant to be played loud. maybe you just dislike loud music.

If you know the speakers are definitely not a bottleneck, then you can easily compare the experience vs a pair of headphones.

I will surely agree that a lot of failures to enjoy loud music is because the speakers can't keep up, but I'm not sure it's the only reason.

Taking your theory to the extreme, if I play loud, reproduced music in my living room and a church the result will be more or less the same with regards to how loud I can play before reflections become a problem? Sounds a bit strange, but I will happily read up on some theory in the subject.

 

[Ultrasonic]

I'm struggling to understand what reflections becoming an increasing problem at higher volumes would sound like?

 

[xaviescacs]

Taking your theory to the extreme, if I play loud, reproduced music in my living room and a church the result will be more or less the same with regards to how loud I can play before reflections become a problem? Sounds a bit strange, but I will happily read up on some theory in the subject.

This is interesting. However, IMHO, I don't think changing the volume is equivalent to changing the room. If you change the room, you will change the critical distance and reflections will be different, of course. But in this new room, again, a change in volume won't affect how troublesome the reflections are. In other words, the volume of the reflections maintains its proportion to the volume of the speakers.

To me, the psychoacoustics explanation makes a lot of sense.

 

[AnalogSteph]

I have an A-S501, and the loudness adjustment has to be the most unintuitive knob ever put on an amp.

If memory serves, Yamaha-style loudness has always been sort of backwards from other common implementations - you'd be leaving the main volume constant, adjusting the loudness knob instead. The upside is that you can easily accommodate differing source levels and speaker sensitivity.