Does DAC performance = great sound?

[Spocko]

Well, "Your system isn't resolving enough" is an argument that keeps being presented when people point to something as having a high risk of inaudibility. Going by that logic, any audiophile person, owning a room with serious acoustic treatment and a setup composed of big bucks gear from highly respected manufacturers, should find the task of hearing differences in well measuring DACs under controlled conditions to be kids play. I haven't seen any reports of that happening?

Simply because nobody with these systems have the time or inclination to do a double blind test in order to prove the point.

 

[billyjoebob]

And you still won't hear it even then - assuming both the $200 and $2000 dacs are competently designed.

That is your opinion.
My experience when I replaced the built in DAC in my Marantz sr2019 with a topping d50s, was different!

 

[billyjoebob]

Simply because nobody with these systems have the time or inclination to do a double blind test in order to prove the point.

I dont have a system like that, and I'm not inclined to waste my time with a double blind test when something is obvious!

 

[Killingbeans]

You say "opinion". I say "safe bet"

 

[BDWoody]

Simply because nobody with these systems have the time or inclination to do a double blind test in order to prove the point.

How about the manufacturers then? Surely a properly controlled test demonstrating repeatable preference wouldn't be out of order.

If it was possible I mean...

So far, even differentiating competent components has been too much to ask. It IS a lot easier to just make claims with no evidence after all.

 

[antcollinet]

That is your opinion.
My experience when I replaced the built in DAC in my Marantz sr2019 with a topping d50s, was different!

Then we can assume either the dac in the marantz wasn't competently designed, or you imagined it.

 

[billyjoebob]

Then we can assume either the dac in the marantz wasn't competently designed, or you imagined it.

Then YOU can assume that.
Thats fine.
Don't make it true.

 

[escksu]

Then we can assume either the dac in the marantz wasn't competently designed, or you imagined it.

IMHO, this could be a characteristic rather than design issue. It may be done on purpose. Equipment manufacturers do sometimes design their own equipment to have a certain characteristic for the audio. Its not a flaw, its on purpose. Of course, not everyone likes it.

An example below. The Arcam AVR550. I am not sure if its really a design issue or by decision made by the engineers who designed the AVR. However, it may be a decision since there are listeners who perceived it as greater detail (as mentioned).

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/receiver-processor/arcam-avr550-av-receiver-review/

"As the Arcam broke in over a week or two, though, I began to hear a very slight but consistent brightness or glare in the midrange. Since the AVR550 measures flat throughout the audio range, this (by process of elimination) must be an artifact of the low-pass filtering of the Cirrus DAC chip. Using the “RTA” app on my iPhone (as a quick first-check), I saw that the 1K to 3K range appeared elevated by a couple of decibels. The elevation was consistent regardless of the speakers being used.

This is a frequency range where many listeners seem to prefer the greater detail that comes from a slight boost, but to my ears and in my room, I considered it screechy. A touch of equalization through my music server software (JRiver 24 Media Center) corrected the issue for me, although I’d think that most users would simply run the Dirac Live room correction (microphone included) to achieve the same effect."

 

[David Harper]

I think I've got the fix for this entire issue; ignore dacs completely. Works for me. I've never heard a dac.

 

[billyjoebob]

I think I've got the fix for this entire issue; ignore dacs completely. Works for me. I've never heard a dac.

Yea. I'm out!
DAC threads seem to be the most contentious on this site.
Heels are dug in pretty deep.

 

[BDWoody]

Yea. I'm out!
DAC threads seem to be the most contentious on this site.
Heels are dug in pretty deep.

Until there is evidence to the contrary...

Anecdote isn't evidence.

 

[billyjoebob]

Until there is evidence to the contrary...

Anecdote isn't evidence.

Until there is evidence to the contrary...

Anecdote isn't evidence.

Nah!

 

[Spocko]

How about the manufacturers then? Surely a properly controlled test demonstrating repeatable preference wouldn't be out of order.

If it was possible I mean...

So far, even differentiating competent components has been too much to ask. It IS a lot easier to just make claims with no evidence after all.

After our discussion on ASR about Dynaudio spending all that money on the Jupiter anechoic testing facility only for us to question whether it was even used? My default position is that established manufacturers simply have zero incentive to do much beyond the status quo while the upstarts are too broke to try

 

[Spocko]

That is your opinion.
My experience when I replaced the built in DAC in my Marantz sr2019 with a topping d50s, was different!

When changing components, often times, the level is simply louder which leaves you with the impression that it's better - did you level match them both to make sure you were listening at the same SPL?