Does clock influence sound?

[solderdude]

Critiquing a car's steering feel IS a pretty good analogy. If all you've driven are Buicks you have no idea what the Porsche guys are even talking about.

The long term stability of clock oscillators is not important unless you are synchronizing equipment. The short term stability is what's important. Two clocks could read the exact same time at the end of the day, but one could be WAY off minute-to-minute, or second-to-second. Or another FANTASTIC car analogy; one driver regulating their speed with their right foot while eating and sending text messages, and another driver is using cruise control.

Car analogies don't hold.... period.

Jitter (short term timing issues) are well understood and audibility thresholds for several types of clock timing issues have been determined.

Short rundown.
Don't use SPDIF, (AES-EBU) nor UAC1 nor I2C if you are afraid of the dreaded jitter.
Use UAC2 or any other 'packet' protocol and you are free of audible jitter.

Blind test? What's that? I already listen with my eyes closed.

A test where you don't know WHAT is being used and even then you need to score 9 out of 10 correct and even that can be gotten with gambling.
It has nothing to do with eyes being closed...
Simple reason ... you can't trust your brain.

 

[RexrothPigeon]

Audiophilia has spread so much bullshit....

and some people wonder why most young(ish) people consider audiophile as an insult...

 

[amirm]

FYI, I tested a DAC with an external clock. It actually made things a hair worse! https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...haft-platinum-review-external-clock-ps.30310/

 

[voodooless]

FYI, I tested a DAC with an external clock. It actually made things a hair worse! https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...haft-platinum-review-external-clock-ps.30310/

It may be worth quoting:

How can this happen? Well, I don't care how good your clock is. When it has to travel over a cable and get extracted inside the DAC, it is liable to be worse than the one inside the DAC sitting close to where it is needed.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Sound-wise a good clock makes the things precisely defined in the stereo field and bass

Nonsense. You don't understand how DACs and their clocks work.

In the early days of digital audio I repaired a studio ADC / DAC where the clock circuit had become unstable. It created clicks and splats and sound going through its ADC was unusable by anything else.

 

[mhardy6647]

How do you define "time smearing"?

It's just a jump to the left.
And a step to the right.
You place your hands on your hips...

Oh, wait. Check that. That's the Time Warp.

Now I want to do it again.

 

[tamtam]

Nonsense. You don't understand how DACs and their clocks work.

In the early days of digital audio I repaired a studio ADC / DAC where the clock circuit had become unstable. It created clicks and splats and sound going through its ADC was unusable by anything else.

How is that related?
I'm talking about imprecise clock creating imprecise wave in DA conversion.
However, not sure how audible this is.

 

[tamtam]

And the trained ear used level matching and wasn’t aided by their nice friend Mr. Eye?

Yes. I'm actually have a golden ear badge in sound gym.
In a fact I was able to pass more difficult challenges due to this.
However, not sure if this was the clock or something else.
Bit research on this, this also maybe the analog out stage or power supply.

 

[RandomEar]

How is that related?
I'm talking about imprecise clock creating imprecise wave in DA conversion.
However, not sure how audible this is.

Typical clock crystals today offer a precision of 50 ppm or better. 20 and even 10 ppm are not rare. Let's say they went for the cheaper one and got a 50 ppm unit. That's a deviation of at most 0.05 Hz @ 1000 Hz. It's almost always much less, because you don't run the quartz at the edge of the allowed boundary conditions (temperature, input voltage, etc.) and they also don't continously change within fractions of a second. Humans typically fail to identify deviations of 1 Hz in ideal tests with a direct comparison of two tones. Imprecise clocks are absolutely not something to worry about.

Also, on a more general note: Making up hypothetical problems, declaring them "potentially audible" and then expecting others to refute those claims is not a nice way to discuss things. If you are worried about anything being a potentially audible concern, research it and start the discussion with a solid fact base showing that there is a reason to be worried.

 

[voodooless]

Yes. I'm actually have a golden ear badge in sound gym.

Great, these are the things we're interested in. So what was the DUT? What did the protocol look like? Was any of this documented?

 

[MaxwellsEq]

How is that related?
I'm talking about imprecise clock creating imprecise wave in DA conversion.
However, not sure how audible this is.

Clocks work well and operate within a tolerance where variations are genuinely inaudible in all and any tests. When they are out of tolerance or faulty the results are splats, clicks etc.

Clock variations don't create subtle changes in sound quality: "darker blacks; clearer dynamics" etc.

 

[SSS]

Don't forget Einstein. Clocks run different when they move and are dependent on gravity as far I remember..

 

[pkane]

Don't forget Einstein. Clocks run different when they move and are dependent on gravity as far I remember..

A good reason to keep the DAC on the same shelf as the external clock!

 

[Ropeburn]

They are not professional musician and they only have one set of equipment .

Good you mentioned it, it's the first thing I thought. That the only places where clocks matter are music studios and venues, and even then it's not about sound at all but reliable synchronisation.

 

[mhardy6647]

A good reason to keep the DAC on the same shelf as the external clock!

Conversely, one could lean into it.
Another approach to an accelerated frame of reference.
Use a long cable between source and DAC and swing the latter around vigorously whilst listening to music.

 

[Ropeburn]

Conversely, one could lean into it.
Another approach to an accelerated frame of reference.
Use a long cable between source and DAC and swing the latter around vigorously whilst listening to music.

Clock transferring jumping rope. You must stay on time. Skip a jump, it skips a beat. Automatic transient/beat/tempo recognition licensed by Pioneer DJ. Timestretch/pitchshift algorithm with 12dB SINAD.