Does audio gear need to be sustainable?

[Blumlein 88]

At first you notice smaller problems. Like a fuse, or temperature device. Then comes the Miele guy in his red van. He never gives me the impression I am the exception. If you’re lucky, you’re still within guarantee period. Then comes more heavy stuff needing repair, change of parts - and last comes the choice to make a repair that costs almost as much as a new machine. 15 years of experience.

Having no technical insight into appliance machines, I try and buy the heaviest machine at the lowest cost. I think the last washing machine was about €2200. I cross my fingers...

Watch some YouTube vids and you can probably fix it all yourself inexpensively. Of course that's not nearly as good a hobby as audio.

 

[Sal1950]

[

We’re heavy users. Washing clothes and tumbling twice daily.

What ya doin, running a bar where the chicks mud wrestle?

 

[svart-hvitt]

Watch some YouTube vids and you can probably fix it all yourself inexpensively. Of course that's not nearly as good a hobby as audio.

No you can’t fix broken parts. The job is not expensive; it is the bigger parts, that are.

 

[svart-hvitt]

[

What ya doin, running a bar where the chicks mud wrestle?

Kids.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Kids.

Almost the same thing only without alcohol.

 

[svart-hvitt]

John Bogle (1929-2019), founder of Vanguard, died a couple of days ago.

He wrote a few years back ago a short book titled «Enough»:

https://www.amazon.com/Enough-True-Measures-Money-Business-ebook/dp/B001FA0WWK

It’s unsurprisingly focused on the monetary perspective but has general interest as well. Take a look at the Amazon page for a flavour.

To me, the word «enough» is interesting. When is enough? Why do we behave as if we don’t have or are enough?

This is, of course, not an excuse for mediocrity.

 

[Palladium]

I'm a PC gaming enthusiast and already spending less on hardware every passing year. There's ever more marketing and salesmanship, but less and less need and real innovation to justify buying new stuff. Same goes for phones, and I'm also having an increasingly averse to clutter piling up in my home.

 

[JJB70]

At first you notice smaller problems. Like a fuse, or temperature device. Then comes the Miele guy in his red van. He never gives me the impression I am the exception. If you’re lucky, you’re still within guarantee period. Then comes more heavy stuff needing repair, change of parts - and last comes the choice to make a repair that costs almost as much as a new machine. 15 years of experience.

Having no technical insight into appliance machines, I try and buy the heaviest machine at the lowest cost. I think the last washing machine was about €2200. I cross my fingers...

Fuses and temperature devices indicate overloading. Especially if heavy mechanical bits are breaking. Check what you are putting in. A washing machine is a mechanical rotating machine and doesn't have a limitless capacity. The only problems I ever saw with Miele or Maytag machines were user induced, idiots forgetting to remove spanners from boiler suit pockets, compacting stuff to get more in etc.

As an aside, don't judge mechanical devices by weight. One of the oldest marketing tricks in the book is to add weight because people associate it with good build.

 

[svart-hvitt]

Fuses and temperature devices indicate overloading. Especially if heavy mechanical bits are breaking. Check what you are putting in. A washing machine is a mechanical rotating machine and doesn't have a limitless capacity. The only problems I ever saw with Miele or Maytag machines were user induced, idiots forgetting to remove spanners from boiler suit pockets, compacting stuff to get more in etc.

As an aside, don't judge mechanical devices by weight. One of the oldest marketing tricks in the book is to add weight because people associate it with good build.

Yes, weight alone is an uncertain factor. But within the Miele (i.e. one brand) series?

Our newer machines have a bit bigger capacity...

I think overloading from time to time is normal in families (though it’s stupid because clothes don’t get clean).

 

[LightninBoy]

Audio gear just needs to play back the sustain!

 

[JJB70]

Yes, weight alone is an uncertain factor. But within the Miele (i.e. one brand) series?

Our newer machines have a bit bigger capacity...

I think overloading from time to time is normal in families (though it’s stupid because clothes don’t get clean).

An owner of a machine can treat it how they like, after all it's their machine. However if you do use it outside of its limiting conditions such as overloading then it is not the fault of the machine if it fails prematurely. The effects of overloading motors and wiring are cumulative, as are some of the effects of overstressing mechanical components. I really don't think that Miele can be accused of building in design obsolescence.

 

[restorer-john]

I run a stack of 5 1990's Adcom GFA 5x5 amps here. Being class A/B they sure do suck up the juice but I've saved the environment from them being trashed and not buying new ones.
So does that make me a bad or good guy?

It makes you a good guy. Put one of those 'kill a watt' energy meters on the feed to your rig, set the electricity tariff and look at it in a year. You will be amazed at how little it really costs to run. Compared to all the energy, environmental costs in replacing the gear, you are a saint IMO.

I have one on my lab feed, around 30+ devices hanging off it including my computers and all my test gear. It cost $22 to run for about 2 years.

 

[Willem]

Just did a back of the envelope calculation. My power amp consumes 40 watts on idle and 480 watts at full power. My guess is it uses about 100 watts in typical use. Assume three hours a day, that makes about 100 kWh a year. That should cost me about 20 euro at current prices, which is obviously not that much. However, it is also about 3% of the typical household consumption in the Netherlands. Replacing all lighting with led lights obviously saves much more (I already did), but all these savings cumulate.
It does not seem to make sense to ditch a functioning older amplifier, but it is worth keeping in mind next time you buy another one. And for authorities it is worth it to regulate. It reminds me of our new vacuum cleaner that meets the new EU guidelines: the old one was 1200 watts and the new one only 600. The new one is lighter, much quieter, and sucks dirt rather better. The same story applies to e.g. refrigerators or desktop computers. There really are (incremental) gains to be made.

 

[JJB70]

I don't think it's disputed that many technologies are a lot more efficient than they once were. Manufacturers of many types of machinery are driven much more by a need to improve efficiency than a need to increase power, speed etc. Materials technology has been steadily advancing and tools such as FEA and CFD have allowed designers to optimise their designs and slim factors of safety etc to a degree that would have seemed fantastical when I left school in 1989 (not that long ago). A typical large diesel engine platform will be about half the weight of an equivalent design from the 80's, with a design thermal efficiency over 50%. and much less need for intrusive maintenance. Although the expected life cycle of a platform has also halved. On the other hand regulations have also led to a lot of gaming of the regulations and in many cases actual in-service performance is nothing like what you might expect and in some cases performance may even be worse than older designs. There is a ship efficiency improvement mechanism called the Energy Efficiency Design Index (EEDI) (a mandatory one), in theory it should make ships more efficient but there is significant evidence that new designs are being over optimised for the EEDI condition and actually less efficient off that point. Something regulators struggle to understand, most of whom cannot understand the EEDI calculation and have never done anything as vulgar as try and do any of the calculations (which are actually very simple). And that is without getting onto engine emissions, cycle busting, illegal defeat devices etc.
I try to buy more efficient goods because it reduces running costs, I also think that in terms of reducing environmental impact it is sensible to make good use of goods and not just throw stuff away because it goes out of fashion. Like I say I buy my clothes at a shop we have here called M&S because their men's wear is good quality, durable and by dint of being rather dull and sober tends not to go out of fashion by dint of never having been especially fashionable to start with. I commute by train and prefer to avoid flying (but in fairness that's because flying sucks more than any environmental concerns). I do it because I think it's a right thing to do, and it is also thrifty and I see no reason to spend needlessly. My objections to a lot of eco-sustainability type arguments are not because I object to what is being promoted but rather to the concept of government compulsion and abrogating personal rights and responsibilities to governments. I object to that on principle and I also don't like the dismissal of individuals as being incapable of doing things for the right reasons (and if they don't then that's there choice). And I do find it hard not to be cynical about both the motives and competence of many government regulators.

 

[SIY]

And I do find it hard not to be cynical about both the motives and competence of many government regulators.

Say it ain't so!!!!

 

[rwortman]

I want to be able to take a cutting off one of my speakers and grow another one.

 

[March Audio]

Just did a back of the envelope calculation. My power amp consumes 40 watts on idle and 480 watts at full power. My guess is it uses about 100 watts in typical use. Assume three hours a day, that makes about 100 kWh a year. That should cost me about 20 euro at current prices, which is obviously not that much. However, it is also about 3% of the typical household consumption in the Netherlands. Replacing all lighting with led lights obviously saves much more (I already did), but all these savings cumulate.
It does not seem to make sense to ditch a functioning older amplifier, but it is worth keeping in mind next time you buy another one. And for authorities it is worth it to regulate. It reminds me of our new vacuum cleaner that meets the new EU guidelines: the old one was 1200 watts and the new one only 600. The new one is lighter, much quieter, and sucks dirt rather better. The same story applies to e.g. refrigerators or desktop computers. There really are (incremental) gains to be made.

What is its power audio output at full power?

This is the obvious advantage of Class D. For example my P252 amp

Power consumption:

Standby: 0.12 Watts
On at idle: 12 Watts
Full Audio Power (250W RMS per channel 500W): 650 Watts

 

[JJB70]

Efficiency is one of those words that has been devalued by misuse, really it is a ratio of input/output but nowadays it is applied to all sorts of weird and wonderful ideas. I work in a field that struggles to differentiate emissions and efficiency (or some do anyway). Efficiency is also one of those things where unless you know the conditions for which an efficiency is calculated and the sensitivities to other influencing factors then it can be quite a meaningless figure but some people throw magic numbers around like they were inscribed on tablets of stone.

 

[Sal1950]

This is the obvious advantage of Class D. For example my P252 amp

Yea but they don't help to heat my listening room in the winter.

 

[Blumlein 88]

Yea but they don't help to heat my listening room in the winter.

Even better they won't help heat your listening room in the summer.