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Does audio gear need to be sustainable?

Willem

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'crazy eco-bolshevists' is certainly a dark turn in what should and can be a civilized discussion of some relevant side effects of our hobby. There really is no need for such language.
Fortunately most audio gear is not that power hungry. There are worse appliances.
 

Blumlein 88

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Should we retreat from mch and stereo into mono as an affirmation of our support for sustainability via reduced energy and other resources?
 

Willem

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Which is why life expectancy in Russia is so low. I do remember having bought a bottle of vodka there that I decided not to drink (first and only time in my life): it had a multicoloured stain on the surface, just like spilled gasoline on water.
 
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svart-hvitt

svart-hvitt

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In 1995, The Audio Critic forecast that transparent audio gear would fit in a small box. See opening post for cartoon.

The Aczels were right, I believe. Both DACs and amplifiers are transparent, small and low cost today. @amirm ’s measurements are empirical evidence that The Audio Critic were right, wouldn’t you all agree?

The question that rises to the fore is: What to do about this insight? Are we ready to buy our last DAC or our last amplifier? Or do we use @amirm ’s rankings as just yet another list to make our next purchase decision? And when the list changes, because 125 dB SNR becomes 127 dB SNR, we will discard our last purchased gear to be replaced by the next new kid on the block? Will the measurement list of @amirm become a buying signal for a certain set of gear enthusiasts, just like the recommended list by Stereophile is a buying signal for another set of enthusiasts? At ASR we’re more «rational», aren’t we? So what will make you buy your last DAC or amplifier?

Needless to say, hifi gear is a drop in the ocean. But could we use our insight into rational audio to alter our behaviour on other areas? Are you a fast buyer or a slow buyer? ASR already has a cadre of slow buyers; will others follow?

If we were to go down the slow buying road, what would we demand from our trusted suppliers of goods and services? A certain dose of trust would be needed, right? What do you think is trustworthy behaviour by the select few suppliers of goods in a world of post consumerism and post overconsumption?
 

Blumlein 88

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In China things are just getting ramped up for cosumerism and consumption.
 

Willem

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I have never sufffered from audiophilia nervosa. So, over the last 47 years I have effectively had two main systems. The first was a Quad 33-303 amplifier driving a pair of Quad esl 57 electrostatic loudspeakers. I still have that system, and it still sounds fine. The second system was a developement of the first: my recently acquired Pioneer U-05 preamp/DAC, Quad 606-2 power amp and Quad 2805 speakers (now supported by a B&W PV1d sub with Antimode 8033). The only thing that has chaged more often were the sources, from a Linn Sondek LP 12 deck and a Quad FM tuner to a Philips cd, then Marantz DVD , then Panasonic Bluray disc player to now also a Chromecast Audio for streaming.
This was never cheap gear, but since I used it over such long periods of time, annual cost was really quite modest for so much pleasure
 
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svart-hvitt

svart-hvitt

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In China things are just getting ramped up for cosumerism and consumption.

That’s why the stock market is booming.

On a more serious note: If you bought your last DAC (which I suspect you did long ago), your last sofa or whatever, it would increase the net present value of @Blumlein 88 . Short term, it would crash the stock market. So I guess we’d rather buy new DACs and sofas to prevent the stock market from a short-term collapse ;)
 

RayDunzl

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Newer Krells go into standby to save power, do yours.

You can turn them ti standby, about 30W each, keeping the power supply and regulation alive.

$0.10/kWh is what I pay excluding the transmission system charges of around $0.05 /kWh. Are you quoting an all in cost or just power without transmission?

There's a few dollars base fee, then generation, then fuel. The 2019 rates are going down. Go figure.

1547936036653.png
 

Blumlein 88

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That’s why the stock market is booming.

On a more serious note: If you bought your last DAC (which I suspect you did long ago), your last sofa or whatever, it would increase the net present value of @Blumlein 88 . Short term, it would crash the stock market. So I guess we’d rather buy new DACs and sofas to prevent the stock market from a short-term collapse ;)
My plan is others can buy to keep the stock market up, and when they buy again I purchase the old unit at a discount. My sofas are hand me downs from rooms which were for show only.
 

RayDunzl

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I'll be the first to cut back on every form of non-sustainable activity I engage in, just as soon as everybody else does.
 

Blumlein 88

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I'll be the first to cut back on every form of non-sustainable activity I engage in, just as soon as everybody else does.
I thought you were a pioneer, pathfinder, a leader toward the future. Your Shout-o-meter is sustainable.
 
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svart-hvitt

svart-hvitt

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Quick question:

Given the insights given on ASR, is there wisdom here to answer the question how to best live our audio(phile) life?
 

RayDunzl

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Given the insights given on ASR, is there wisdom here to answer the question how to best live our audio(phile) life?

I do as I like, within the limitations of what it really is I want to do.
 
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svart-hvitt

svart-hvitt

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I do as I like, within the limitations of what it really is I want to do.

Science is about finding general principles isn’t it? Is there anything such as general principles to best live our audiophile lives?
 

RayDunzl

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Science is about finding general principles isn’t it? Is there anything such as general principles to best live our audiophile lives?

I've never thought that I had an "Audiophile Life" as something distinct from my "21st Century Fringe of the 1% Controlling 46% of the Wealth of the World, Western Civilization Style, and Generally Being of a Conservative Nature" life.

Maybe it's a subset, and therefore inherits its basic classes from the more gereral ruleset above.
 

restorer-john

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It's really quite simple. Sustainable means keep something alive.

Vintage HiFi is sustainable, it always has been. Ever since the very first after school job I got, I have been repairing, restoring, rebuilding and keeping alive electronics. I remember walking in and asking the owner of a large local pawnbroker "who fixes your broken things?" He told me his technician was old, expensive, slow and was about to retire.

I told him I could fix anything. He gave me a car load of stuff to 'test' me and my mum dutifully took it all home. That was around 1981/2 and I was a 15yo (still 3 years left of school). He set me up with my own service bench, whatever test gear and parts I needed. He paid me well, in either cash or broken audio gear or some combination of both. He also was an amazing business man and I learnt a lot from that humble pawnbroker.

I remember a pile of HiFi sitting out the back of his store about 10ft tall which had been 'written off' by the previous tech. I fixed every piece- all without schematics. He eventually gave me a lovely Luxman L-81 integrated amplifier (dead of course) as a bonus with my pay. It took me a long time and a lot of tears (I was young) to solve its frustrating intermittent fault. Apparently my Dad said it nearly broke me. It turned out to be what is now a famous fault in amplifiers (not back then, they were new), what we call STVs or in this case 'blob diodes' or 'spider eggs'. A 5 cent fix. A lesson I never forgot.

Luxman L-81:
1547939422828.png


Now, that actual L-81 amplifier is still functioning perfectly. It was the start of my Dad considering the possibility of ever having a 2nd hand piece of HiFi in his house. Everything prior was bought in a factory sealed box (he was a Doctor- everything had to be perfect). In this country the Lux was expensive and exclusive at AU$780 and only about 4+ years old at the time. I fixed it, gave it to him and he still has it. With hindsight, it was the start of the really serious HiFi collecting by both of us. (prior to that he only had perhaps 20 pieces of HiFi and I, perhaps a dozen)

Now, nearly 40 years later, I have many hundreds of HiFi components. Two offsite storerooms, and I have spent decades restoring and moving-on gear, often at simply incredible profits. It's always been there, whether as a hobby, a business, a livelihood or a passion. It put me through uni, paid for a house, bought me a wife and son and provided endless years of enjoyment and ongoing challenges. It has always been there, even years later, when I was selling property or working in the finance industry.

Modern HiFi is not sustainable. It cannot be economically repaired. It doesn't last very long. Even old-skool technicians with decades of skills and parts are stonewalled by companies with their lack of available bespoke spare parts and other roadblocks like SMD and PbFree. And that can be regardless of retail price. In short, it is a bad investment for the purchaser and the planet.

I see these silly little pieces of Chinese crap people are lapping up like lemmings and it makes my stomach turn. They will all be in landfill soon enough with their overheated and failed SMD parts, their burnt-out SMPSs and more dry joints than a weed seller at a music festival.
 
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March Audio

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In 1995, The Audio Critic forecast that transparent audio gear would fit in a small box. See opening post for cartoon.

The Aczels were right, I believe. Both DACs and amplifiers are transparent, small and low cost today. @amirm ’s measurements are empirical evidence that The Audio Critic were right, wouldn’t you all agree?

The question that rises to the fore is: What to do about this insight? Are we ready to buy our last DAC or our last amplifier? Or do we use @amirm ’s rankings as just yet another list to make our next purchase decision? And when the list changes, because 125 dB SNR becomes 127 dB SNR, we will discard our last purchased gear to be replaced by the next new kid on the block? Will the measurement list of @amirm become a buying signal for a certain set of gear enthusiasts, just like the recommended list by Stereophile is a buying signal for another set of enthusiasts? At ASR we’re more «rational», aren’t we? So what will make you buy your last DAC or amplifier?

Needless to say, hifi gear is a drop in the ocean. But could we use our insight into rational audio to alter our behaviour on other areas? Are you a fast buyer or a slow buyer? ASR already has a cadre of slow buyers; will others follow?

If we were to go down the slow buying road, what would we demand from our trusted suppliers of goods and services? A certain dose of trust would be needed, right? What do you think is trustworthy behaviour by the select few suppliers of goods in a world of post consumerism and post overconsumption?

I found knowledge and becoming informed in this hobby stopped me from chasing upgrades, not as you say here chasing 2dB in the next product.

The work this forum does informs people.

I had a Tag McLaren system for about 14 years, the reason I sold it was because technology moved on. The processor did not have HDMI and dsp progress meant I could design my own dsp speakers. Class d amps meant I could use far less electricity. Sound and picture in my current system is genuinely better.

Should I have remained with my old system for the sake of some vague definition of sustainability? No. Humans will always strive to progress and move forward and rightly so IMO.
 
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