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Does anyone else like FM?

The other big issue with FM (here) is the compression used a) when they originally ripped/stored the files and b) the compressors used in the transmission. They suck the life out of the music. Their catalogue of music were often ripped and stored from CD back in the early days using heavy compression due to HDD space being expensive. Much of that has been migrated (and sometimes re-coded from the original compressed file) to other storage, but all the CDs were long disposed of.

The sound quality just isn't there as it once was back in the day when playing direct from CD when a DJ played a 'not for resale' disc he played for the first time to his listeners on a pro CD player live on a late night show.

I had a big chat with one of the broadcast engineers several years back for one of our biggest stations and he admitted they were actually in the process of gradually re-obtaining as much of the music as possible to store as lossless going forward.

The compression codecs they were using were audibly brutal due to the bandwidth capabilities of the links, particularly when doing OB (outside broadcast) "live" shows. I'd never really considered how such shows were done, say at an event, where the DJs/Personalities are live on air and playing/controlling content, links to the newsroom and all the music, reports etc. The music was making the trip from the studio storage servers, through the wireless link, to the OB location, sometimes 50km away, then back to the studio and then linked to the transmitter site which was on a mountain another 25km away. It was done in bursts with the ability to retransmit if packets got corrupted to ensure the content wasn't interrupted.

After listening to a few tracks I really knew well sounding like absolute trash, I realized none of it would get fixed as there was no appetite for quality FM anymore. I was the only person who had ever complained and taken the time to let their 'engineer' know how bad the off-air sound was. He didn't even have an off-air high quality tuner. They just listened to the studio feed on a laptop over the internet... I figured it was time to place flowers on the grave of FM at that point.
Sad to hear that . How are the public broadcast companies doing it down there ? here in Sweden SR had always had meticulous archiving standards and always done their best, nothing stored in a lossy format afiak .

Our commercial stations are so bad that i doubt they have any kind of archive :) they probaly stream from a provider somewhere .

So in Sweden you can listen to FM if you listen to SR the public broadcast company , otherwise the risk of suicide by car is to great , it would be sad to drive into a buss :)

And yes SR has more reasonable personalities to , you don't lose all hope of humanity listening to them .

And I listen to FM in the car at home SR has quite the good streaming quality over internet ( I use LMS and Squeezeboxes ) so it would not make sense .
 
I haven't regularly listened to the radio since the early '80s and even then it was pretty much exclusively the John Peel show on a cheap clock-radio. I've always found 'talk radio' immensely irritating (likewise podcasts) and music radio, if not infested with ads, is still peppered with jingles and perky 'hosts'. No thanks. Consequently I've never owned a radio receiver of a quality where I could meaningfully tell the difference between digital or FM radio or even FM from AM ...
 
Interesting. Well, I thought free Spotify sounded decent. I think ACC is a good codec and 160Kbps is maybe on the higher end of free music streaming. When I said I assume free streaming is 128K with lackluster codec, I had more in mind the Youtube website and SXM streaming, as I don't think they sound as good as Spotify streaming. Maybe I shouldn't say free Spotify SQ is less than FM as I've actually never streamed to my Hifi just other systems lol. But the thing about the streaming aps is it seems like their user interfaces changes and I had more difficulty using it than the last time I logged on it months ago lol. FM always works the same.

What does Spotify mean, "Note: You can’t change audio settings when using Spotify Connect to play on another device."? And dumb question why is the web player lower maximum bit rate than tablet. and mobile device?
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that FM sounds better to some folks, in some circumstances, simply because of the compression applied to almost all FM broadcasts.

By compression I don't mean file compression like mp3 - I mean dynamic range compression. This has been used in FM for decades and it makes FM quite loud and punchy sounding, which can be uniquely engaging or pleasant in certain circumstances, especially in a car where the background noise is high and dynamics in the music are often more of a liability than a benefit to the listening experience.

To be clear, I personally do not find that FM sounds anywhere near as good as a "regular" signal with no added compression, I've got a decent number of live recordings in my music library that are sourced from high-quality FM recordings, and while they are very nice to listen to, their sonic flaws compared to shows taken from broadcast masters are quite obvious.
I think that is true for some people, that they like FM because of dynamic range compression or more likely what I think is certain radio station applying EQ and boosting bass and treble for a certain sound. Also I vaguely remember a study that generally listeners preferred dynamically compressed music of vinyl to CD only if the sound was distorted and FM is somewhat distorted. But I dislike those FM stations where the music seems loud with EQ. And I like a lot of dynamic range. All my music listening after the cassette era, besides FM has been CDs I prefer CDs to FM (and tape and vinyl).

I don't even listen to FM in the car anymore just at home. But FM sounds better in a car than say SXM or streaming free music from a phone, even with the accessories on or idling and low background noise, likely because it's so digitally compressed. The digital streaming sounds more distorted, tinny and mechanical on top of reduced dynamic range.
 
You are absolutely correct. When added to the splashy/squashed sound of the storage compression codecs, Some stations sound too bad to listen to. Then you get some small stations with low cost units who dial back the compressors and they sound great, albeit with a bit more background noise.

A compressor:
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That's a little over my head :) , and maybe I'm wrong but in those specs I didn't see anything limiting what FM tuners are capable of anyhow with frequency range, distortion, S/N ratio, and I assume you still end up with stereo separation. I have no doubt broadcast stations monkey with FM so it's not what it could be, but I feel free digital streaming is just as "monkied" with in its own ways and doesn't sound as good not as convenient or cost effective to use (need a streamer, DAC, pay for networking bandwidth). I don't want to call "free" and even a lot of paid digital streaming a scam, compared to radio frequency broadcasting but it kind of is whether audio or video.
 
Spotify sounds wastly better than FM in my car , but I'm not using the free version .
I don't doubt it especially if your using USB and not Bluetooth, but that's the caveat it's not free Spotify vs free FM and comparing apples and oranges. Plus I assume you're paying for a phone and cellular bandwidth.

But forget about costs and extra equipment. I dislike using the Spotify app, I don't like using my phone to stream to my car stereo or even home stereo. I don't like touch screens in cars (it would be fine in a home stereo but strangely they don't make them) . I even intentionally bought my car model that had something resembling a traditional radio and no touch screen. So it's not the best for streaming, but will network Bluetooth and USB but it doesn't sound or work good. So I'm sticking with FM at home and SXM in the car. I'd like higher sound quality and more content than with FM for my home system especially, but I just don't see any streaming option that would provided and isn't too much of a hassle.
 
I don't doubt it especially if your using USB and not Bluetooth, but that's the caveat it's not free Spotify vs free FM and comparing apples and oranges. Plus I assume you're paying for a phone and cellular bandwidth.

But forget about costs and extra equipment. I dislike using the Spotify app, I don't like using my phone to stream to my car stereo or even home stereo. I don't like touch screens in cars (it would be fine in a home stereo but strangely they don't make them) . I even intentionally bought my car model that had something resembling a traditional radio and no touch screen. So it's not the best for streaming, but will network Bluetooth and USB but it doesn't sound or work good. So I'm sticking with FM at home and SXM in the car. I'd like higher sound quality and more content than with FM for my home system especially, but I just don't see any streaming option that would provided and isn't too much of a hassle.
A yes apple car play makes Spotify easy to navigate on the car screen , i would be offroad if I tried to fiddle with the actual phone while driving :)
The current Kia ev's have a surprising amount of real actual buttons even if they do have a screen . So yes screen only cars are insane , tactile interfaces are sometimes the logical option a screen requires that you look at it it can not be maneuvered by feel like a knob or button .
 
Our local fm stations are all advertisements. I tried a few this year and it was unbearable. I grew up on fm radio and loved the local rock station that would play whole albums after 11 pm. I used to stay up late to hear the latest Rush record. Gosh, I miss being young. My gear now blows my mind compared to the sears boon box I had. My gosh that little wiim pro thing is like science fiction ad a kid who grew up in the 70s. I have to remind myself when somehow I think I need the newest an greatest. I use xm in the car but wonder if that's a waste of money. I only listen to a few channels.
 
My problem with FM is the advertisements and mindless talkback "personalities". It's unlistenable in this country because of that, and I have some lovely tuners too, so a pity.
We are lucky to have advert free BBC FM which we listen to in the car.

At home it is just background streamed on a smart speaker, or lossless streamed radio paradise on my main system (assuming I'm not listening to my owned music). I think it is possible to get BBC radio streamed at pretty good quality also. Checks... - yes 320kb/s routinely available.
 
The various stations have differing SQ here in the UK IME.
Back in the 1970s and for a long time thereafter live broadcasts on BBC Radio 3 at 7:30 pm was the best sound quality I got at home. I also learned a lot of music at a time when I was taking more interest in more complex music. I recorded the broadcast on cassette and listened to it on the way to work and back in my car, I definitely found music I really eventually enjoyed, and have done so for decades, rarely immediately enjoyable (and the converse).
Budget cuts lead to the end of daily live broadcasts and I have such a huge library of CDs of the music I love that I do not use that way of using radio broadcasts any more.
Nowadays I mainly listen to broadcast music only in my car, Classic FM has dynamic range compression which is OK in the car but sounds dire on a HiFi and has adverts so I have BBC Radio 4 talk radio as an alternative.

So, much as I have enjoyed FM in the past, and I still have a Lynx Theta tuner (a Magnum Dynalab tuner board in a case to match the old Lynx amp and preamp) connected to my amp I rarely use it.
 
Does anyone else like FM?

Simple answer from me is yes…

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This was a very cheap eBay purchase about 10 years ago. It’s about 40 years old and working very nicely.

I don’t think it sounds better than internet radio on my network player, only the strongest of signals don’t hiss in stereo, but it has a bit of a novelty factor about it in todays world and the ease of just switching it on and tuning the dial to me is more appealing than scrolling on apps.
 

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In general I like FM and have several tuners. Unfortunately since years they try to cut FM and promote DABplus. This has reduced sound quality due to low sample rates and is data reduced. Have no DABplus receiver and cannot compare. Eventually FM will die here in Germany. For car radio FM is useful for traffic and wheather information. For home the audio signal is somewhat compressed and with high level. Compared the music tunes to my CDs this is not good for enjoying. Weak FM signal causes the tuner to switch to mono which happens occasionally.
 
Across Europe there is a constant balancing act with governments wanting to sell broadcast bandwidth (it brings in € without taxation) whilst not wanting to annoy users. The TV selloffs went OK, but FM and AM are proving "balanced" between consumption fall-off and ongoing use.

I look back fondly to my contributions to delivering high quality radio and streams.
 
I haven't listened to FM in years. All my fav stations died. The remaining ones are advertising channels here in the Bay Area. SQ wise FM definitely not ever set a standard, in my opinion.
I listen in the car, mainly to the local NPR station and occasionally to an all jazz station, also NPR. I also live in the Bay Area. I miss radio. It's a nostalgia thing. I was 5 when my family got its first TV and radio was my source for music and stories.
 
We are lucky to have advert free BBC FM which we listen to in the car.

At home it is just background streamed on a smart speaker, or lossless streamed radio paradise on my main system (assuming I'm not listening to my owned music). I think it is possible to get BBC radio streamed at pretty good quality also. Checks... - yes 320kb/s routinely available.
I stopped using FM at home when the BBC started streaming at 320k. Where I am, some 40 miles from the Transmitter, even with a 6 element antenna, FM was always that bit worse than streaming. I now find that with modern encoders, even 128k AAC is better quality than FM, so prefer to listen to stations' streams rather than the FM service.

Sad in a way, as back in the 1970s, BBC FM Radio 3's live broadcasts were the highest form of HiFi available at home, and getting a good tuner and antenna location was an important part of setting up a HiFi system.

S.
 
Across Europe there is a constant balancing act with governments wanting to sell broadcast bandwidth (it brings in € without taxation)
It must be happening everywhere. I am on the edge of being able to receive Boston TV signals. When they made the change described in the link below it made it worse for me. I imagine they will squeeze OTA TV again sometime and I won't get them at all. I don't think there is much advocacy for people who watch OTA TV. Sorry if going too far off topic.
 
In the car, if I listen to the radio, I prefer DAB to FM.
 
Re. processing in radio, some time ago the topic came about on another forum, so I captured "Luka / Solitude Standing / Suzanne Vega" from the internet stream of polish Radio357 and compared it to Spotify's stream and my own CD. Here's spectrum of 5 seconds from 0:30, 1:40 and 2:30. CD and Spotify are essentially the same and Radio375 has big boost below 150 Hz and reduction above 2k:

cd_vs_radio357_vs_spotify.png


There was also a link to an example of audio processor that can be used in radios:
That was already mentioned in other similar threads:
 
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