Does amplifier make difference in bass response?

[Blake Klondike]

Hopefully a quick question! I recently plugged a pair of wharfdale diamond bookshelf speakers, and a pair of HD800s into an onkyo and then an NAD amp and the bass sounded a million times better on the NAD.

Is there some quality of their amp design that accounts for this difference or did I just have the NAD turned up louder? Does turning up volume increase bass response? Can better equipment provide better bass response at low volumes?

I suspect from following discussions here that the amps don't make any difference, but have long wondered about this question. Thanks!

 

[digitalfrost]

Damping factor for speaker amplifiers can play a role in bass performance. See the table at the bottom of this page: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-damping-factor-isnt-much-of-a-factor

As for headphones, output impedance of the amp can influence the frequency response as well.

 

[Speedskater]

But with modern, well designed solid state amplifiers damping factor/output impedance should not be a factor.
* * * * * * * * * *
But then, I don't know anything about the above listed components.

 

[Blake Klondike]

But with modern, well designed solid state amplifiers damping factor/output impedance should not be a factor.
* * * * * * * * * *
But then, I don't know anything about the above listed components.

thanks-- the NAD is the most common model from the 70s-80s. the onkyo is just some consumer thing from 2010 or something.

when i used the NAD, i immediately got FOMO because everything sounded better. just trying to get a sense re if that's because the volume was louder.

i am autistic and can't listen at high volumes and i am wondering if i *have* to take a hit on bass response, or if i could shop smart and get something that sounds better at low volumes. i don't understand last response about output impedance!

 

[Blake Klondike]

Damping factor for speaker amplifiers can play a role in bass performance. See the table at the bottom of this page: https://benchmarkmedia.com/blogs/application_notes/audio-myth-damping-factor-isnt-much-of-a-factor

As for headphones, output impedance of the amp can influence the frequency response as well.

what does that mean about output impedance? i always find that everyone is very knowledgeable and helpful, but my e/e illiteracy gets in the way of my understanding their answers to what are probably basic questions!

 

[NTK]

Many integrated amplifiers just put an attenuation resistor of a few hundred Ω in series with the speaker output for their headphone output. That means the headphone output output impedance is basically the resistance value of the attenuation resistors, i.e. output impedance of a few hundred Ω.

The impedance of the HD 800S, as measured by Innerfidelity, has a big hump centered at 100 Hz. Combined with the high headphone output impedance, you'll get an EQ curve close to the shape of impedance curve, with the peak at 100 Hz several dBs above the 1 kHz value. That's the explanation for the boosted bass you heard with the NAD. As the HD 800S (also the non-S) are known for their anemic bass (see Amir's review), the bass boost will make them sound better. Note that the "matching" Sennheiser HDV-820 DAC/headphone amp also has a very high output impedance of 45 Ω.
(Source: https://www.stereophile.com/images/Sennheiser_HD800S_PDF_AllPlots.pdf)

 

[solderdude]

Integrated amplifiers with headphone out is usually nothing more than the speaker outputs via 1 (or 2) resistors which increase the output resistance of the headphone out only.
This can easily vary between models between 100 ohm and 600 ohm depending on how it is designed.

Here's how the HD 800S responds to different output resistance sources.

As you can see at 120 ohm there is slightly more warmth. On higher output resistance outputs it will be even slightly more.
So any perceived differences between (headphone) outs of integrated amps may certainly come from that.
A 1-2dB broad bandwidth difference is audible.

 

[er|κzvio1in]

Integrated amplifiers with headphone out is usually nothing more than the speaker outputs via 1 (or 2) resistors which increase the output resistance of the headphone out only.
This can easily vary between models between 100 ohm and 600 ohm depending on how it is designed.

Here's how the HD 800S responds to different output resistance sources.

As you can see at 120 ohm there is slightly more warmth. On higher output resistance outputs it will be even slightly more.
So any perceived differences between (headphone) outs of integrated amps may certainly come from that.
A 1-2dB broad bandwidth difference is audible.

What output resistance values correspond to the green and red traces?

 

[er|κzvio1in]

thanks-- the NAD is the most common model from the 70s-80s. the onkyo is just some consumer thing from 2010 or something.

when i used the NAD, i immediately got FOMO because everything sounded better. just trying to get a sense re if that's because the volume was louder.

i am autistic and can't listen at high volumes and i am wondering if i *have* to take a hit on bass response, or if i could shop smart and get something that sounds better at low volumes. i don't understand last response about output impedance!

If you can't listen at high volumes, you can always apply loudness compensation using EQ. What source(s) do you use?

 

[solderdude]

What output resistance values correspond to the green and red traces?

sorry forgot to mention.
red = 0.2 ohm
orange = 10 ohm
purple = 32 ohm
green = 120 ohm

To supply some context, for comparison the HD559:

and Focal Clear:

OLLO S5X (also low inpedance dynamic):

 

[rjp]

i am autistic and can't listen at high volumes and i am wondering if i *have* to take a hit on bass response, or if i could shop smart and get something that sounds better at low volumes.

You can add more bass at low volume using an equalizer. There are analog and digital options you can add to any amplifier.

For example, here is an analog option: https://www.schiit.com/products/lok...3JKfMY7O8k94ONDcXGDOXHvQADKXpbKt_QfhFwHn5-YuF

 

[Paul7777x]

If it was one of those little box, all in one Onkyo things, then it is likely to be very power shy too.