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Does active bi-amping effectively double power?

I checked and it looks like the 3.6 is only recommended for 250w or so, but as others have mentioned that will only get you another 3dB or so from where you are now. If volume is the issue your realistic options are sit closer or get more efficient speakers.
 
One strange thing here is that I ran the 3.6 speakers off an Harmon Kardon HK730 from the radio (tuner) and they seemed a lot louder to me off the HK than they did from any other amp using either a topping D30, Chromcast Audio, or WIIM as the source. Even any of these dacs, including Chromecast Audio feeding the topping or direct to the HK via RCA. That's in spite of the HK being only 40 W into 4 Ohm. I just can't explain that.
 
This IS an active crossover. Mini DSP based crossover. The XO is before the amp in the stream.
@Hayabusa is correct in pointing out that you can get close to double the power with an active crossover. I saw you mention the miniDSP but did overlook that the passive crossovers can be defeated. Since this is a three way speaker, you would need to do some calculations (or tests) to determine how you divide the drivers and to see how much power you can gain.

Nonetheless, as mentioned by other fellow members, you typically need a lot more power (4x +++) to get a noticeable gain in SPL and these speakers are not specified for that much more. So higher efficiency speakers would be the easier route. I would add that it's also not a given that you need that much. Most people end up in the single digit Watts range at normal listening levels. The other stuff you mention with the HK receiver playing much louder also points to a lack of gain in your regular setup and not a lack of power.
 
@Hayabusa is correct in pointing out that you can get close to double the power with an active crossover. I saw you mention the miniDSP but did overlook that the passive crossovers can be defeated. Since this is a three way speaker, you would need to do some calculations (or tests) to determine how you divide the drivers and to see how much power you can gain.

Nonetheless, as mentioned by other fellow members, you typically need a lot more power (4x +++) to get a noticeable gain in SPL and these speakers are not specified for that much more. So higher efficiency speakers would be the easier route. I would add that it's also not a given that you need that much. Most people end up in the single digit Watts range at normal listening levels. The other stuff you mention with the HK receiver playing much louder also points to a lack of gain in your regular setup and not a lack of power.
What I don't really get is that the speakers just seem pretty subdued to me at full volume on the Fosi V3 Mono which should put out a legit 180 clean watts. In my current 12x20 living room, not the room they were purchased for which is much larger, they're kind of 'loud enough'. I measured them at a listening position from 10-12 feet away at 72 db. It seems to me with room reinforcement that should have been like a 1-2 watt level. I don't get it. I tried it with everything I could find feeding it.

72 DB is actually a find SPL for me. I'm OK with it but I just question the missing SPL. It's extra confusing because of all the 'maggies need big power' talk. I don't get it.
 
What I don't really get is that the speakers just seem pretty subdued to me at full volume on the Fosi V3 Mono which should put out a legit 180 clean watts. In my current 12x20 living room, not the room they were purchased for which is much larger, they're kind of 'loud enough'. I measured them at a listening position from 10-12 feet away at 72 db. It seems to me with room reinforcement that should have been like a 1-2 watt level. I don't get it. I tried it with everything I could find feeding it.

72 DB is actually a find SPL for me. I'm OK with it but I just question the missing SPL. It's extra confusing because of all the 'maggies need big power' talk. I don't get it.
That just sounds like a gain problem even more. I'm pretty sure you would not sit there in a relaxed manner if 180 W were playing ;) The Fosis do have a gain switch in the back, you should probably check if that is in the higher position. Should only be relevant for RCA inputs, though. Their input sensitivity is somewhere around 1.7 V for RCA, I think (more infos are burried in this thread), so a 0 dB digital signal with the miniDSP at full volume in the config and no EQ or pre-amp active should be able to drive the V3 Monos to full power. For other sources, you need to check their maximum output voltage.

I also checked a Magnepan review and their actual sensitivity seems to be a bit below 84 dB/2.83 V, which is lower than spec. Assuming that and your reported distance, I also arrived at an amplifier power of about 1 W for the 72 dB you measured. So something must be amiss here. You can check the V3 Mono review thread, which includes a load test: They do not care about impedances down to 2 Ω, they do not care about phase, they just pump out the power. This all points to a lack of input voltage to me. Could be caused by a simple configuration problem, too if you currently feed them from a Wiim or the miniDSP.
 
72 DB is actually a find SPL for me. I'm OK with it but I just question the missing SPL. It's extra confusing because of all the 'maggies need big power' talk. I don't get it.
I owned a pair of 3.7 Maggies for c. 10 years and was never tempted to bi-amp, though I did use a pair of sub-woofers. The amp I drove them with was rated at 150w/8ohms. It sported a bias current meter on the front. I never saw the needle move. Maggies aren't power hungry when used within their performance limits.

The reason to multi-amp any speaker is seldom power or absolute volume, per se. It is the sequestering amp demands driving one driver section from affecting the signal sent to the other(s) - e.g., stopping clipping products caused by over driving the bass driver from reaching (and damaging) the tweeter. Bi-amping also allows driver sections with differing efficiencies to be simply (and efficiently) reconciled, e.g., a horn loaded midrange / tweeter section to an acoustic suspension bass.
 
Agree it sounds like a gain problem, make sure everything is turned up on the WiiM /source before going further.
 
That just sounds like a gain problem even more.
I've fed the v3M from the WIIM, direct from a Chromecast Audio (CCA) puck, and from CCA's optical output to a Topping D30 DAC. The WIIM and the CCA both put out 2 Vrms and the topping puts put 2.1. Supposedly that is enough to drive the V3M to full volume. Maybe there is some configuration problem inside of the Deezer app that we use for streaming music. I have check and rechecked and swapped setting back and forth.

I should try it with a different streaming service, or something, maybe just YouTube.

It seems like I should have enough power but I have tried multiple DAC and even multiple amps and it's still quiet. So, maybe the problem is upstream, in the app itself.

I still haven't tried using the miniDSP as the DAC.
 
Just a side comment here, everyone is so knowledgeable and nice. Especially since I am just smart enough to make complicated problems I can't solve on my own.
 
What I don't really get is that the speakers just seem pretty subdued to me at full volume on the Fosi V3 Mono which should put out a legit 180 clean watts. In my current 12x20 living room, not the room they were purchased for which is much larger, they're kind of 'loud enough'.
What do you mean by "subdued"? A lot of folk think Maggies need to be loud to sound good, for various reasons, but I do not know if you mean the volume is lower for a given control setting or something else. They do not radiate much off the sides so do not add a lot of reflections that "fill a room" like conventional speakers except from the back wave. That is partly why folk say they have a narrow sweet spot (plus as dipoles they actually do have a fairly narrow radiation pattern). Try making a smaller equilateral triangle and sit closer with them pointed at you, move back and forth a bit, and see if you can find their (narrow) sweet spot. Sitting too far away can be problematic.

I measured them at a listening position from 10-12 feet away at 72 db. It seems to me with room reinforcement that should have been like a 1-2 watt level. I don't get it. I tried it with everything I could find feeding it.
Maggies rate their sensitivity higher than conventional speakers because Maggies send most of their energy to the front (and rear), so Magnepan "fudges" their rating by 3 dB or so to account for the lack of energy radiated to the sides. Room reinforcement is mostly from the rear wave and very much depends upon how far they are from the rear wall and how reflective it is. One or two watts average power sounds about right for you, but peaks are probably 50 to 100 W.

72 DB is actually a find SPL for me. I'm OK with it but I just question the missing SPL. It's extra confusing because of all the 'maggies need big power' talk. I don't get it.
All the "big power talk" is from their low impedance (3-4 ohms typically) and low sensitivity (80 to 86 dB/2.83 Vrms typical) so they need more power than most conventional speakers for the same SPL even before room gain is considered. My first pair of MG-I's sounded great with a 25 W/ch tube amp when I was sitting about 6' away, and awesome in a larger room with 75 W on the mid/tweeter though having a 200+ W on the bass panels helped a lot -- along with a good subwoofer or three.
 
True, but only if you remove the internal crossover, or the speaker already has terminals that bypass the internal crossover. And a reminder that the tweeter usually requires a small fraction of the total power, reducing the reason for bi-amping if loudness is the goal.
Isnt half the advantage of going active removing the passive xover?
 
Isnt half the advantage of going active removing the passive xover?
Back in the day, for outdoor PA systems you could drive the bass amp into clipping and not have the 18" drivers reproduce the high frequencies that accompany clipping distortion. Or at least it was a lot farther down than with a passive system.

Anyway, I haven't heard anyone mention the typical impedance curve of electrostatic speakers. A power amp with low output impedance is probably the right approach, but I have no first-hand experience with electrostatic drivers.
 
Isnt half the advantage of going active removing the passive xover?
I said "internal" crossover. Most speakers that I have seen with separate high and low connections outside the box do not bypass (remove) the internal crossover. The woofer inputs still pass through the LPF, and mid/tweeter through the HPF, so you are not removing the crossover by bi-amping unless you dig inside the box. You are not wrong, but most folk are not going to remove the speaker's factory, internal, passive crossover IME.
 
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I think my problem might be delaminating lowering the efficiency of the speakers. Ill
Refurbish them eventually. I just noticed a very mild bit of buzz.

We’re headed to Maine on vacation very soon. There’s no internet where we go so thanks everyone
 
Back in the day, for outdoor PA systems you could drive the bass amp into clipping and not have the 18" drivers reproduce the high frequencies that accompany clipping distortion. Or at least it was a lot farther down than with a passive system.

Anyway, I haven't heard anyone mention the typical impedance curve of electrostatic speakers. A power amp with low output impedance is probably the right approach, but I have no first-hand experience with electrostatic drivers.
Magnepans are NOT electrostats and typically have a flat 4 ohm impedance. They are best driven by an amp whose power output doubled into 4 ohms. Many amps limit output into 4 ohms.

Electrostats dip down to an ohm or so in the high frequencies, but this is a different problem and not relevant to the discussion at hand.
 

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