• Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Does active bi-amping effectively double power?

taxonomy

Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2026
Messages
23
Likes
5
I’ve got a set of Magnepan 3.6 for a large room. It’s well over 5000 cubic feet. I’m not entirely sure I’ll wind up using them and don’t want to spend money on an amp speculating if they’re right. Can I simulate big power by bi amping them? The 3.6 use an external XO and I can use a miniDSP HD as the active crossover. The amps I currently have kicking around include a Hafler DH200 and some Fosi V3 Mono.

Running the 3.6 on the Fosi has been underwhelming. I’m not saying I’ll run this system permanently but both amps should put out 150+ clean watts. Does this accurately simulate a 300 watt amp?

Interestingly I own MG12 as well and even with supposedly identical efficiency ratings the 3.6 sound worse to my ears and don’t play as loud on the Fosi. The MG12s sound great on the Monos to my ear.
 
In short: No. The combined power is far from being doubled.


Quick way to think about this: If you were voltage-limited before, you're still limited to the same maximum voltage as with a single amp. This limits your total power draw to the exact same level. If you were current-limited before, some gains are possible. But even then you've got the limitation that most of the power is required by the woofer, so you can't gain more than the maximum power draw of the tweeter by bassive bi-amping, which is really not much (maybe 10-25% of the total speaker power). In practice, it's probably less than 1 dB of peak SPL for the current-limited case.

EDIT: I should add that the example with the tweeter power draw is simplified. In practice, tweeter + crossover will not have the same impedance as woofer + crossover. So the actual gains for the current-limited case will not exactly match the tweeter power draw. The linked thread explains it in more detail. Passive bi-amping is still very limited in usefulness.
 
Last edited:
Without repeating the sums again, it's like this - to get a noticeable increase in sound volume, you need bucket loads of extra power.
 
Rod Elliott illustrates exactly how you do get a power increase from bi or tri amping with an active crossover, compared with a single amplifier and passive crossover. However, what that means is that the amplifier used for the bass, say a 100 watt can now produce all of its power in the bass only, without having to reserve some volts for the mid range or treble. Without the active crossover, a single 100w amp would perhaps have only 70 watts available for the bass as the mid and treble would take up the voltage that produces the remaining 30 watts. This of course depends on the music and its frequency distribution, and on the sensitivities of the drive units, but the general principle applies.

What you don't get however, is the powers of the individual power amplifiers in an active system adding linearly, so if you're using three 100 watt amplifiers in your triamped system, that won't necessarily go as loud as a single 300 watt amplifier in a passive system. This is again because of frequency distribution in the music, and the differing driver sensitivities. That's why in a typical active system, one may have, say, 100 watts for the bass, 50 watts for the midrange and 20 watts for the treble.

S.
 
If it helps, I have active bi-amplification on the fronts and the result is not doubling the power, but there is a noticeable increase, but more interesting is the sound which now differs a lot from what I heard before bi-amping.
I use 2 MM7025 amplifiers and a DBX PA2 for bi-amp.
I also leave two pictures for context.

Bi-Amp Active.pngBi Amp Active.png
 
Magnepan say the mid/high and bass panel consume about the same power, plus I’m using dual subs. So, roughly equal amps should play well.

I guess it’s free to try. So I’ll give it a go. I still don’t understand how it won’t play significantly louder but electronics isn’t a forte. I always think of electricity as water, there’s pressure and flow. It seems to me that it should be louder because theres more capacity. If I were trying to water a lawn with two sprinklers I could double the area of lawn I could water, I could fill a pot twice as fast.

It’s too bad I can’t just test drive some giant amp.
 
Last edited:
Magnepan say the mid/high and bass panel consume about the same power, plus I’m using dual subs. So, roughly equal amps should play well.
Magnepan crosses over fairly low in frequency and uses (usually, lots of variance) low-order crossovers that provide a lot of overlap among panels. That, plus lack of extended (very deep) bass, means bass and mid panels require roughly the same power.

I guess it’s free to try. So I’ll give it a go.
Perceptual bias means you will likely hear improvement even when there is none really there. That's OK, but just know the improvement you hear may not be real. There's nothing wrong with bi-amping, and you already have the amps, so nothing lost by trying.

I still don’t understand how it won’t play significantly louder but electronics isn’t a forte.
There are multiple parts to the answer. The people above, and linked article, goes into it in some detail. Any real improvement happens at the very loudest levels so unless you are regularly clipping your amplifiers you won't hear any improvement (in a blind test). Note that, while bi-amping does not significantly increase available power, even if it did actually double the power that is only a 3 dB increase in SPL, a very modest increase that is just noticeable to most people when adjusting the volume. Doubling the perceived loudness requires 10 dB, and thus ten times the power, assuming your speakers can handle that much.

I always think of electricity as water, there’s pressure and flow. It seems to me that it should be louder because theres more capacity. If I were trying to water a lawn with two sprinklers I could double the area of lawn I could water, I could fill a pot twice as fast.
That analogy is used a lot but has its limitations. This is a very hand-waving explanation that might (or might not) help.

For bi-amping, using two similar amplifiers, the analogy only works if you are using all the available water from one hose and then add another. You cannot exceed the available water from your tap, and ultimately from the provider (city water, well pump, whatever). What happens to the shower flow if you run all the other taps and flush all the toilets in the house? Yeah, the flow drops, because the source can only provide so much. It works for lawn sprinklers because they limit (reduce) the flow rate by using a smaller orifice, so adding another sprinkler takes advantage of the margin (additional flow rate and pressure) in the house's water supply. If you had a open fire hose running out in the yard, there probably would not be enough flow for the other tap.

The amplifiers similarly limit power to the maximum they can provide, at least until they are limited by what the incoming electrical service can provide. Ignoring the service limit, consider a 100 W amplifier feeding a woofer and a tweeter. The maximum either driver can ever see is 100 W from the single amp. If you bi-amp with two 100-W amplifiers, then again the most either woofer or tweeter can "see" is 100 W. Nothing ever sees 200 W. Any gains are due to limiting the frequencies into the amps, which requires a crossover before the amps to split the frequency bands, and subsequent reduction in signal level to each amp. Look up "equal loudness curves" and you will see that by far the most energy is used in the bass, so the extra power for the tweeter is not much of the total power. The difference can be 20 or 30 dB depending upon frequency, a power factor of 100 to 1000 times. Even if just 10 dB, a factor of ten, that means the bass is using about 90% of the amplifier's power, so again adding an amp is not helping much.

It’s too bad I can’t just test drive some giant amp.
Perhaps, but again you would need a really giant amp to make a significant increase in loudness. Ten to 100 times the power of what you have now.

As an aside, I had Magnepans for many years (since ~1979), and in a number of configurations (single, horizontal or vertical bi-amped, rarely tri-amped). I found bi-amping with a line-level crossover required more work to set up and offered little benefit. For the last 10+ years I ran my MG-IIIa's with a single larger (300~500 W) amplifier, and switched back to bi-amping a couple of times using an active crossover, but the single large amp sounded as good, and as loud, and was much less effort to implement. Ultimately I stuck with a single large amplifier and quit second-guessing myself. I did use a DH-200 for a while, among others (tube and SS), but at the end was using an Emotiva XPA-2 (original) claiming 500 W/ch into 4 ohms. Not the best amp in the world but sounded OK to me.

HTH - Don
 
One power advantage I can think of with active is that theres no xover resistors to reduce the tweeter/mid levels to match the woofer. Sometimes burning almost as much power as the tweeter.
 
One power advantage I can think of with active is that theres no xover resistors to reduce the tweeter/mid levels to match the woofer. Sometimes burning almost as much power as the tweeter.
True, but only if you remove the internal crossover, or the speaker already has terminals that bypass the internal crossover. And a reminder that the tweeter usually requires a small fraction of the total power, reducing the reason for bi-amping if loudness is the goal.
 
To estimate how much headroom you may gain by active bi-amping, you can run a simple experiment.
  • Import a piece of your favorite music into Audacity. If you don't have any in mind, you can use the AES75 Music Noise instead.
  • Make 2 duplicates.
  • To one of the duplicates, apply a low-pass filter [ Audacity -> Effect -> EQ and Filters -> Low-Pass Filter ... ], using your desired cross-over frequency and slope. I believe Audacity uses Butterworth filters, therefore if you want to simulate Linkwitz-Riley, e.g. 4th order LR (24 dB/octave slope), filter it twice with 2nd order Butterworth (12 dB/octave slope) with the same cross-over frequency.
  • Do the same to the other duplicate, but use a high-pass filter instead.
  • Measure the sample peaks of the 3 signals. You can use the amplify function [ Audacity -> Effect -> Volume and Compression -> Amplify ... ] for this measurement. The amplify function will show you how many dB's the signal peak is below full scale (since by default it will amplify the highest peak to full scale).
Now you'll know how much the signal peaks are attenuated by the high-pass and low-pass filtering, and how much headroom you have gained by splitting up this particular signal. The amount of headroom gain is signal dependent (it is dependent on the original signal crest factor, and the filtering often increases the signal crest factor).

If you try it with a square wave (crest factor = 0 dB), and cross-over it at the square wave frequency, you will find that the high-pass filtered signal would have peaks higher than the original square wave, and therefore attenuating (and phase shifting) the lower frequency harmonics of the square wave actually reduces your headroom! (But fortunately this is an academic edge case.)
 
Last edited:
The 3.6 come ready to active biamp.

It’s wierd because I have been a high efficiency tube amp guy but run with subs. Maybe this is a terrible place to admit it but perhaps a big room like this is just more suited to high efficiency speakers.

I’d wanted the scale the Magnepans for the big room but honestly it seems like a can of worms
 
The 3.6 come ready to active biamp.

It’s wierd because I have been a high efficiency tube amp guy but run with subs. Maybe this is a terrible place to admit it but perhaps a big room like this is just more suited to high efficiency speakers.

I’d wanted the scale the Magnepans for the big room but honestly it seems like a can of worms
You are correct. In a big room you will need high efficiency speakers. Also, they will be rather large in size. Not exactly giving a flat frequency response I would look at say a Klipsch RF 8000 I think it is. Also there are other large speakers that will put out serious sound but you will have to open your wallet. I think you thought about this and have figured it out. Trying to push the living daylights out of some Maggies isn't really the way to go IMHO. There are a LOT of people on here who have owned or do own serious speakers that will put out sound to the 110db range with little distortion.. Good Luck and have fun with your system. Let us know what you end up doing we all like to hear about new systems and how they perform. If you have a lot of money to burn, the Legacy speaker brand has large serious speakers for big rooms.:)
 
I don't have money to burn but I can spend some decent money on the speakers especially if I am not buying a new amp to go with them. I also tend to buy used stuff to take advantage of the incredible rate of depreciation for audio gear. This just seems like a much more straightforward path to dealing with the thousands of cubic feet of air in that room.

I do love the weird form factor of Maggies through.
 
To estimate how much headroom you may gain by active bi-amping, you can run a simple experiment.
  • Import a piece of your favorite music into Audacity. If you don't have any in mind, you can use the AES75 Music Noise instead.
  • Make 2 duplicates.
  • To one of the duplicates, apply a low-pass filter [ Audacity -> Effect -> EQ and Filters -> Low-Pass Filter ... ], using your desired cross-over frequency and slope. I believe Audacity uses Butterworth filters, therefore if you want to simulate Linkwitz-Riley, e.g. 4th order LR (24 dB/octave slope), filter it twice with 2nd order Butterworth (12 dB/octave slope) with the same cross-over frequency.
  • Do the same to the other duplicate, but use a high-pass filter instead.
  • Measure the sample peaks of the 3 signals. You can use the amplify function [ Audacity -> Effect -> Volume and Compression -> Amplify ... ] for this measurement. The amplify function will show you how many dB's the signal peak is below full scale (since by default it will amplify the highest peak to full scale).
Now you'll know how much the signal peaks are attenuated by the high-pass and low-pass filtering, and how much headroom you have gained by splitting up this particular signal. The amount of headroom gain is signal dependent (it is dependent on the original signal crest factor, and the filtering often increases the signal crest factor).

If you try it with a square wave (crest factor = 0 dB), and cross-over it at the square wave frequency, you will find that the high-pass filtered signal would have peaks higher than the original square wave, and therefore attenuating (and phase shifting) the lower frequency harmonics of the square wave actually reduces your headroom! (But fortunately this is an academic edge case.)

Thanks for this. I will run this experiment when I do eventually deploy the maggies. if biamping doesn't work out I think I will put these back on the market and buy highly efficent speakers. With really efficient speakers I could probably run a dozen watts per channel instead of hundreds.
 
The 3.6 come ready to active biamp.
So did my old ones, but didn't they drop that option for the 3.7? I've lost track...

It’s wierd because I have been a high efficiency tube amp guy but run with subs.
My main system for many years was an ARC D79 driving my Maggies and a home-brew (active servo) subwoofer. The sub used a custom controller I designed and built, and was driven by a bridged Hafler DH-200. Maggies distort badly (10's of %) with large bass signals, so adding a sub cleaned them up considerably, and added dynamic range to the system. The bass was better with a SS amp, but when I was bi-amping I never liked the blend of the tube mid/tweeter amp and SS bass amp (several different amps), until I finalized on a Counterpoint SA-220 for the bass (tube input, MOSFET output). The crossover varied over the years, passive (RLC line-level circuit, not "passive" in the sense AVRs do it now), active custom op-amp, ARC tube crossover, dbx SS crossover, etc.

Maybe this is a terrible place to admit it but perhaps a big room like this is just more suited to high efficiency speakers.
Perhaps... I always thought Maggies sounded best in a large room where you can get them far enough away from the wall behind them (and other wall behind the listener) to reduce comb filter effects. I usually damped the wall behind, which reduced their sense of "space" but drastically improved imaging. I always sat fairly close (8' ~ 12' or so) even in a large room. I you want them to fill a large room, with the MLP fairly far away, they need to be fairly far apart and you are going to need a lot of power. They are a benign (albeit low) load but are insensitive speakers.

I’d wanted the scale the Magnepans for the big room but honestly it seems like a can of worms
Placement of speakers and listeners is critical in any room, but actually easier in a large room, if you can get the speakers and listeners out from the walls. The rule of thirds I always found a good starting point: speakers 1/3 from the front wall, listeners 1/3 from the back (and thus 2/3 from the front), roughly in an equilateral triangle. You can vary the coverage by angling the speakers (toe-in) slightly. I usually had tweeters on the inside as imaging was better for me; some prefer tweeters outside to broaden the sound stage, but I did not feel they imaged as well in that configuration. Above the bass they radiate as a dipole, so little energy goes to the sides, meaning you can place them fairly close to the side walls without hurting their sound.


For a rough estimate you can use an online calculator to estimate power needs. This is one I usually use; it is an estimate but reasonable in the midrange.
 
They did drop the Biamp option after the 3.6. Id considered buying a second Hafler and running one amp per speaker but I think the Fosi are a better choice rather than a second Hafler. My plan was to try it with an existing miniDSP 2x4 HD I own and then move to a Flex 8 if it's promising. I am already running two SVS SB2000 Pro subs with whatever is in my main system. Maybe I am wrong, but generally it seems the demands of low base are never really handled well by mains, unless they're unbelievably crazy mains.

The room is big and confusing. I think that there's really no way to predict what will sound good in there without trying it.
 
In short: No. The combined power is far from being doubled.


Quick way to think about this: If you were voltage-limited before, you're still limited to the same maximum voltage as with a single amp. This limits your total power draw to the exact same level. If you were current-limited before, some gains are possible. But even then you've got the limitation that most of the power is required by the woofer, so you can't gain more than the maximum power draw of the tweeter by bassive bi-amping, which is really not much (maybe 10-25% of the total speaker power). In practice, it's probably less than 1 dB of peak SPL for the current-limited case.

EDIT: I should add that the example with the tweeter power draw is simplified. In practice, tweeter + crossover will not have the same impedance as woofer + crossover. So the actual gains for the current-limited case will not exactly match the tweeter power draw. The linked thread explains it in more detail. Passive bi-amping is still very limited in usefulness.
In short: it is possible, especially if you combine it with an active crossover. Your low and high also need to be able to handle the power..
 
In short: it is possible, especially if you combine it with an active crossover. Your low and high also need to be able to handle the power..
This IS an active crossover. Mini DSP based crossover. The XO is before the amp in the stream.
 
Back
Top Bottom